Leaning and sitting on feet?

[Mango's Dad]

Our 10 week old, Mango, likes to hang out now and then at my feet, I think it's more of a security thing for Mango. I had a Doberman once named Dio who always sat at my feet, especially when someone (human or other) was behaving poorly and getting loud. Dio would stand guard with his butt on my feet and dare anyone to behave poorly in my direction.

[JoJo]

The leaning was explained to me as a "protective" state. I've also heard it as a dominance thing but neither of my dogs exhibit dominance in any other way. Normally when new people come around my dogs will sit on our feet in between us and a new guest.
My female also likes to herd the kids up into one section of the room and will literally sit on them. I normally will hear yells across the house and I know that the dog has resumed her baby sitting position, and that is normally on top of the kids. My guess is it's her idea of the easy way to keep track of all of them. Wish I could get the same results!

Your dog is NOT in either a protective state nor a herding state. She is being ill mannered and showing dominance with your children and YOU should be correcting this behavior. Your kids have every right to be yelling for you to put their BABYSITTER in her place!!! Please start being a responsible owner and parent!

[jaden]

Originally Posted by JoJo

Your dog is NOT in either a protective state nor a herding state. She is being ill mannered and showing dominance with your children and YOU should be correcting this behavior. Your kids have every right to be yelling for you to put their BABYSITTER in her place!!! Please start being a responsible owner and parent!

Originally Posted by JoJo

Your dog is NOT in either a protective state nor a herding state. She is being ill mannered and showing dominance with your children and YOU should be correcting this behavior. Your kids have every right to be yelling for you to put their BABYSITTER in her place!!! Please start being a responsible owner and parent!

The kids and my dogs play constantly and not once have my dogs showed agression or dominance over them. I AM A RESPONSIBLE PET OWNER AND PARENT and would never let this happen nor do I appreciate someone saying that I am not. I take pride in how well behaved my dogs are in the house as well as out and spend a lot of time on their obedience.

My 3 yr old as well as my 7 yr can walk our 5 yr old dog with no problems at all. She listens to their commands as well. My dog "leans" on all of our family members and will crawl into our laps if we are sitting on the ground for some affection.

If I thought my children's yells were out of pain, believe me, I WOULD put a stop to it.

[JoJo]

Sorry for the three posts. My computer kept kicking me off the Internet and I wanted to be sure I was able to get my point across

You got your point across, but please absorb my point. It's not only for your children's sake, but for the breeds sake. I will repeat myself once more:

Your dog is NOT in either a protective state nor a herding state. She is being ill mannered and showing dominance with your children and YOU should be correcting this behavior. Your kids have every right to be yelling for you to put their BABYSITTER in her place!!! Please start being a responsible owner and parent!

Now go and read the sticky's in Behavior, training and then read the BSL forum. All those forums are packed with information to hopefully make you realize how "foolish" you are being. Please be part of the solution not part of the problem with our beloved breed. I refuse to sit by in an idol state and not speak up when I read something that could turn out to be tragic. I will not sugar coat or apologize for it either. Every dog is a good dog until it bites!! Please, you're probably one of those that will tell me "my dog doesn't bite". Hurt feelings gets what dead child where? Is that blunt enough for you? I'm really over it folks. Really over it.

[poohbearsmom]

Sorry, I concur with JoJo on this one.

Leaning/standing on feet is indeed a dominant maneuver. Subtle dominance, perhaps, but dominance nonetheless. Dominance is not a black and white thing, and should always be taken in context, but, this behavior is indeed a dominant one.

A dog should NOT be sitting on children. It's a sign of utter disrepect. It's also an accident waiting to happen.

Folks, these are not stuffed teddy bears. These are DOGS. They know no moral compass as we do, and the behavior they exhibit is the behavior we ALLOW them to exhibit.

I'm sure that your girl is a wonderful girl, as she is likely not really that dominant, however, if the leaders in the household don't do their job, the dog will usually take on the job themselves.

Most of our dogs do show a level of respect to us, even if we don't earn it. Lucky us. Some, over time, given enough reign will start throwing their weight around. That's when things can go south.

Please allow your children the right not to be bullied by your dog.

There's a wonderful book I suggest you read: The Culture Clash, by Jean Donaldson.

[jaden]

As I stated before, and this is my last post concerning the subject, my dogs are neither ill mannered, dominant, agressive and no closer to killing my children than our pet gerbil. A Rottweiler's natural instinct is to herd. She does not "sit" on my children until they turn blue in the face nor does she ever nip or bite them. She listens to any commands they give her as well. The fact that she feels protective over our whole family is not a bad trait. When anyone new comes around she lets me decide if they are "safe" and then she has no problem happily greeting them. If she was dominant she would bite anyone coming through our front door. Continue to feel anyway you want, but if you want to educate people about the breed, try not to come across as an over bearing, know it all. Maybe then more people would heed your advice.

[alice's mommy]

Do NOT leave children alone with dogs EVER!!!!! Man, this one is a major peeve for me.

That alone is irresponsible! You have a three year old and you're leaving this child alone with a dog!?! Protect your dog from your child, too! Man, this is not cool.

[JoJo]

my dogs are neither ill mannered, dominant, agressive

Well since you stated the above, please explain your bitches perfect temperament with your statements below from your therapy thread. And please educate yourself BEFORE you even begin to educate others. The Rottweiler world would greatly appreciate correct advise.

My female does not have the tempermant for it. She is un-easy around men. but to help educate people on the breed as well.

People like you scare the living bejesus out of me. I will keep your children in my thoughts and prayers and hope you have the continued good fortune that nothing tragic takes place (in a split second). I would sure hate to see your dog being PTS because of a prideful owner.

[Cdn1050]

The dog sitting on the kids and being left alone in a room unsupervised with the dog, gave me the chills. I will admit that my dog leans and leans (not all the time but sometimes) on my children and myself. Though I don't think on her part this is dominant behaviour, why take the chance. When this happens, she is given the sit command. Since her leaning tends to be when she is standing. She has 3 seconds (and that to me is being generous) to go into a sit position. What happens next if she doesn't sit, I step to the right and let her topple side ways to the floor. She is learning that leaning is not acceptable.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by jaden

As I stated before, and this is my last post concerning the subject, my dogs are neither ill mannered, dominant, agressive and no closer to killing my children than our pet gerbil. A Rottweiler's natural instinct is to herd. She does not "sit" on my children until they turn blue in the face nor does she ever nip or bite them. She listens to any commands they give her as well. The fact that she feels protective over our whole family is not a bad trait. When anyone new comes around she lets me decide if they are "safe" and then she has no problem happily greeting them. If she was dominant she would bite anyone coming through our front door. Continue to feel anyway you want, but if you want to educate people about the breed, try not to come across as an over bearing, know it all. Maybe then more people would heed your advice.

Jaden, no one is saying your dog is a monster. However, you would do well to read some books on dog behavior and body language.

As I said before, dominance is not a black and white thing. Leaning/standing on our feet is a SUBTLY dominant behavior. A dog sitting ON small children is disrespectful. Dogs don't usually come out of the gate biting unless there is a real weakness in temperament, or the dog is ultra dominant (very FEW people are even capable of dealing with an ultra dominant dog). Most dogs are what we would consider 'middle of the road' in temperament. Dogs who growl and give warning are the types of dog who let you know when they are nearing their bite threshold. Some dogs don't warn - that's how I lost a huge chunk of my own arm 3 years ago when I was attacked by a friend's dog.

Any/every dog will bite. Each dog, just as each human has their own individual temperament with various strengths and weaknesses. We have seen tragic examples time and time again of people who come here telling us how "cute", "wonderful" and "well behaved" their dog is, and in their next paragraph, they tell us of how their dog has bitten them, or their child resulting in injury (or worse!), and they appear to think this incident just somehow happened with no prior warning. Nearly 100% of the time, the dogs did give warning after warning which was ignored by their owners. After enough warning (in the dog's mind), the ante must be upped to get their point across.

Dominance is rarely exhibited by a bite, (or there'd be a lot more people in the hospital, and dogs would not be man's best friend!) but rather through various physical queues and posturing. Body language IS a dog's vocabulary, and it would serve ALL of us well to be more in tune with the true meaning of these postures.

There are plenty of structured activities that dogs and children can participate in together, and ANY time dogs and small children are loose in a house, there should be proper supervision 100% of the time. It truly concerns me that your children are yelling to you from ACROSS the house to get your dog off of them.

You see, anti dog laws are really fueling up around our "free" Country. Mandatory spay and neuter laws are popping up all over, Breed Specific Laws are popping up all over, and every time there is an incident involving a targeted breed (the Rottweiler IS a targeted breed) my friend, that lessens the probability that I will be able to own the dog breed of my choice, or even a dog at all in the very near future. That pisses me off, because I manage my dogs with the utmost care, and I don't trust them any further than I can pick them up and throw them, and I certainly don't expect my dogs to make a rational choice based upon human morals and ethics when put into a position to fail because I respect them for what they are; Dogs. For me to put the responsibility of a child's safety in the paws of a dog is setting my dog up for failure, and that would be the least of my worries.

Please rethink your defensive attitude and try to absorb what is being said here.

[annamack]

I have to agree with everything poohbearsmom had to say here. I have a teeneager bigger than I and I still dont let her out by the dogs herself. I am sorry these are very big strong dogs it only takes seconds for things to get ugly. Granted she has gone with the dogs and I to classes but I still refuse to take the chance.. I dont think my dogs would ever do anything to harm any of our family but like I say... "whos to say" there is always a what if....

Then What?

[Shelby427]

Originally Posted by jaden

As I stated before, and this is my last post concerning the subject, my dogs are neither ill mannered, dominant, agressive and no closer to killing my children than our pet gerbil. A Rottweiler's natural instinct is to herd. She does not "sit" on my children until they turn blue in the face nor does she ever nip or bite them. She listens to any commands they give her as well. The fact that she feels protective over our whole family is not a bad trait. When anyone new comes around she lets me decide if they are "safe" and then she has no problem happily greeting them. If she was dominant she would bite anyone coming through our front door. Continue to feel anyway you want, but if you want to educate people about the breed, try not to come across as an over bearing, know it all. Maybe then more people would heed your advice.

You need to stop being defensive and listen to the advice that's been given. Your situation is an accident waiting to happen. The fact that you leave your children and this dog alone makes me very uneasy. The fact that this dog SITS on your CHILDREN and you think it's cute is shocking. You must learn that it's NOT PROTECTION unless THERE IS DANGER PRESENT.

You need to read, learn and teach the dog and children. The behavior that your girl is exhibiting is unacceptable. You clearly do not know what being dominant means. Being dominant does NOT mean they will bite someone who comes through a door

[Obelix]

I did read in a rather serious book about dog-behaviour that it is a sign of dominance,being a small one.

[Obelix]

[quote=jaden;802155]The leaning was explained to me as a "protective" state. I've also heard it as a dominance thing but neither of my dogs exhibit dominance in any other way. Normally

when new people come around my dogs will sit on our feet in between us and a new guest.

This is no protection a all.Dogs sit on the first place to show who's in charge.

My female also likes to herd the kids up into one section of the room and will literally sit on them.

Dogs are never allowed to be alone with children or to herd human beings.It is a fact that dogs of a herding breed force the individuals that won't react to "the herding" are forced to obey the hard way.In this case it would be a light bite ,but a bite nevertheless.

I normally will hear yells across the house and I know that the dog has resumed her baby sitting position

When you haer the yells and you don't SEE what is happening you NORMALLY should be VERY worried.

and that is normally on top of the kids.

This is too crazy for words.Responsable owner??????

My guess is it's her idea of the easy way to keep track of all of them.

Wish I could get the same results!

Maybe start OB with your kids,

[jaden]

As I have said before, I joined this forum because I believe firsthand experience trumps anything that you can read in books or learn from vets that treat all sorts of breeds and lump all dogs together in their behavior. My last vet belongs in this group and muzzled my dogs (even the 8 month old puppy) before even treating them. It was not done exclusively to just Rottweiler’s, but every large breed she came in contact with.
I don’t claim to understand everything about dogs. Being a pet owner my whole life does not qualify me to understand everything about animals. However, I perceive it as my job and AS A RESPONSIBLE PET OWNER AND PARENT, to learn everything I can about my particular dog. Books will only get you so far. Personal experience from others will only get you so far. But what I have learned is the pack mentality of animals and having two dogs has made me become even more aware of this. I make sure my dogs understand their place in our household. My whole family is their Alpha leader’s right down to my youngest. We have earned this respect with them with constant training and discipline. I say earned because with a pack of dogs this must be earned and not taken as a given because we are the humans. My 3 yr old can walk my 105 lb dog with no problems. Do I let him do it by himself? No. But she does respect him as a leader where if he tells her to sit, she does. If he tells her to go lay down, she does. So if you do not want someone to get defensive, please do not attack them before gathering facts.
I have had my dog for 5 years. Do I know everything about her? No. She cannot talk so it has been my job to understand her through whatever verbal and non verbal communication she can offer me. I know her body language better than most people because with her actions comes honesty. Unlike humans, with dogs, there is no hiding their emotions. She has a different “talk” when she is hungry, when she wants to go outside, when she wants to play and I have also see her stance in her protective state, body stiff, head down and a relentless stare at whatever she sees outside that may be a danger to her family.
And yes jojo, when we got our dog at 8 months old, she was scared stiff of men. And I do understand if a fear is not addressed it turns into an aggression. That is why for five years I have worked with her fear and she will accept anyone I introduce her to (including men) without a question. Unfortunately it is in most men’s nature to come across as dominant when meeting her and will reach out to her first without being properly introduced. I would advise anyone going into someone’s house that has a dog to let the dog check you out first. This is common sense with any dog and not exclusive to just a Rottweiler.
And to address the on- going subject of my dog with my kids, I WOULD NOT HAVE a dog that I could not leave my kids alone with for 5 minutes. She is protective over them, not dominant. She leans into us for affection. If I push her away she rolls onto her back and whines to be petted. If I were to push her away and she leaned into me further without moving, we would have an issue that needed addressed. She does the same thing with my 7 year old and my 3 year old. When the kids have had enough they push her away and she goes across the room and lies down.
Does she herd them? That’s what I call it. Does she herd them from another part of the house into one room? No. If she sees my son go near the basement steps, which he is not allowed to go down by himself, she will put her body between the steps and him and bump him back and continue to do this until he is away from the area. Then she will lie in front of the steps. Is this herding? Maybe not, but that is what I describe what she does. When they are playing she will continually bump them around until they are together. Then she will assume her position sitting. Is she on top of them? No. She lies in front of them normally across their legs and rolls onto her back to be pet. When I say my kids are yelling across the room I do not mean screaming for their lives. It’s normally yelling followed by, “Jaden get off” and by the time I get back into the room she is already up and walking away. Am I there with them? 99% of the time. I work from home which gives me the luxury of spending a lot of time with my kids as well as my dogs. If for the 1% of the time I am not with them I could not trust her, then she would not be in our house, bottom line. My children’s safety is my top priority.

Originally Posted by dipper

Every Rottie I ever had did this----dominance issue?? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by dipper

Rotties are herders, hence the leaning--I had a male that loved to (gently) herd the kids together.

My dogs would often sit on the feet of my wife when a stranger approached.
They would sit there and stare at the person---kinda like checking them out.
I kind of like my dogs close to me and they make excellent feet warmers.

Rich

So please do not preach to me about what a bad parent I am and how “ill-mannered” my dogs are. Training and obedience are very important to me because of the bad rap Rottweilers and large dogs in general have been perceived. I have discouraged more people over the years from getting large dogs (not just Rottweiler’s) because of the time and attention they require. Most people want more out of a dog than they are willing to put in.
So if anyone still considers me a bad parent and pet owner. So be it. I know that I do the best possible for both my dogs as well as my family and would never put either of them in danger.