Agression w/childre

[Family Dog]

Hello,

I have just recently joined this site and have been looking and looking for help regarding my 7 month old Rottie and his attitude towards my children recently. I have had him since 8 weeks and he has ALWAYS been around children. Always around us in the house. Sleeps in a crate at night. I have 3 boys ages 5, 7 and 10. He had been fine up until he turned close to 5 months. He then started some food aggression. I and the kids, have fed him in the kitchen with us, after we eat, and had our hands in his bowl from day one. The kids go get his food and I put it down for him, after I make him relax and/or do a trick. That was all going great until he suddenly pulled an anttitude when he had the bowl alone.

What I was told to do at first (from a trainer) was to put him to the ground, stand over him and growl at him. Other times any noise out of his mouth with any type of grumble was to spray vinagar and water mix in his mouth so I did. Well, I think this caused more harm than good cuz of course this was happening around his food and the kids. He also has toy/plastic whatever aggession sometimes with my kids. He will growl and snap if they try to take things away form him. YES, I have told them not to do this but they have still tried. They used to be able to take things from him when he was real little-even up to 5 months, but I was always there and my dog knew it.
So to help this, now we are dropping treats in his bowl when we walk by. He now knows we are doing this and will walk away from his food a lot of the time looking for that special treat, but if we walk towards his bowl so does he. Some times he grumbles sometimes not. Also, if he growls when they are by his food, and I am right there, he does try to avoid the situation and turns and walks away in circles.

Now my further concern is he is now growling at them when they walk up to him if he is laying down. He does not do it all the time. He walks up to them all the time to play, lays on them, rolls over to rub his belly and such. It just seems like it is now on his terms or when he wants to relax.

A few things to note:

He has not been Nuetered yet-heard it may help a little, no guarentees
Just bought a new house this summer so we do not have a fenced yard yet, we do what we can for walks, but there is so much snow and cold weather it is hard. So I know he needs more physical exercise.

Do to weather our training classes have been put on hold

This is my main question...Should I spend the money and nueter him and keep working with him or is there too much of a risk with my children in the mean time? Is this something that can be fixed or always a threat now? Do I send him to Rottie Rescue?

I have had Rotts in the past, but never any of these issues. I wanted a dog for my kids...A Family Dog. This one is just a tough one. I do not want to have to worry about this all the time. Do you think it can be taken care of or not?

Thanks for any advice. I am sure you all have many questions for me.






I have had a trainer come over and see how he is. He has always loved people and kids and still does, but now

[dogsbydoug]

How much formal training has he had?

How much socialization has he had?

He needs to realize that the bowl and it's contents belong to YOU and your family - NOT HIM.

Work on LEAVE IT with him - he needs to learn to LEAVE IT - no matter what it it - be it his food bowl, toys, anything...

NILIF for the dog and the kids - the kids need to understand that what they are doing is making the dogs problems worse - and if the kids cannot understand it, they should not be allowed to interact with him unless you or another capable adult is present - make that house rule with dire circumstances should it be broken.

I see no need to mess with the food bowl, but he does need to realize that you and other people will bein the same room with him when he is eating, and sometimes good things come from those people walking past him.

As for toys and other possessions, he gets them on YOUR TERMS - you decide when and what he plays with. When not playing with the dog, all toys go up out of sight...you start and end the game.

And YES, get him neutered...may not help with his attitude, but he does not need his testicles in order to be a good family pet - he needs training.

[buddysdad]

does he get at least 1 walk a day.

what food is he on......................

[Family Dog]

"Formal Training" only 3x due to weather. I work with him myself, but of coarse he does great at home with sit, stay, down and that good stuff-No problem-especially for a treat. Kids have no problem when they have a treat too. No growling.

Socialization-LOTS!! He loves people and kids-everyone! No issues with other dogs either. He is the submissive one. He is just bothered now with the kids. He does get at least one walk /day and does go to the dog park when I can.

I can mess with his food all I want. I make sure when he is eating he is in the middle of the room now so we all are walking by. I really think the food issues are getting better, but the coming up to him is getting worse. He listens me and my husband great. Even to the kids at times.

What do I do if he does growl when the kids want to pet him? I don't think I have heard of NILIF? where is that info.?

[hokisteph5]

Besides what's already been recommended, I would change the way the kids are playing with the dog. It sounds like right now he thinks of them as his playmates and being on the same level as him. Instead of letting them play with him by rolling around the floor, why not have them throw a ball for him to fetch?

When it comes to the food dish, I don't tolerate any growling, snapping, etc. by the dogs. This was something my now late beagle did and because of my family's ignorance (I was a teenager at the time and he was the first dog we ever had) we knew that when Harley got fed, no one should mess with him while he ate unless they wanted to get bit. It was something we managed, but after he passed I swore that my next dog would be raised differently.

The first thing I did was acknowledge that I didn't know what we did wrong, but I was going to start going to obedience classes to learn how to do things right.

When Samson tried to test the "no growling while eating" rule, the food dish was immediately taken up. I put the dish on my lap, sat in a chair, and he ate his food from there for one or two feedings. When that wasn't enough and he was still testing, the food was then fed kibble-by-kibble to him from my hand. These were two techniques recommended by my trainer at the time. Samson caught on fairly quickly that no one was going to take his food from him, there wasn't anything to guard, and that growling/snapping/etc. wasn't allowed. I've also seen it recommended here to drop treats in the dish like you've been doing...

Gretchen, on the other hand, has been a dream about her food dish. She did try to growl once as a cat walked by her when she had a bone, but a few sessions of the "give and take" game nipped that potential issue in the bud.

[Family Dog]

Oh, as far as food, I feed him Canidae. The one for all age groups. The protein I believe is 22%. It is from a Whole food Pet store recommended by my trainer. I give it 2x/day about 8-9 cups total. He is a very big, but not fat AT ALL. He weighs at least 75 pounds already. Should this be changed in any way?

[hokisteph5]

Originally Posted by Family Dog

I don't think I have heard of NILIF? where is that info.?

Here are some links to more info about NILIF.

Link 1
Link 2

[buddysdad]

okay first all all ignore as much as u can do not let your kids touch the dog if the dog comes close to the kids stand up and say no if he dosent move step closer sharply, on a morning when u open crate dont say a word walk out back door first then call him and say its wee time.Eveything calm no need to shout just back it up with your body no need to touch the dog.I havent a clue how you live or anything about ya dog but aggression has to be sorted,certain foods can make ya dog hyper, pulling on the lead making a fuss of him can make him hyper, stroking at wrong times can make him hyper, u need to walk then calm him, keep a space in the house between u and the dog dont let him get to close to you's i mean about a metre or so, just till u get results.if he 's aggressive u must shock him either banging his food dish down if its near food ( metal dish works great) then u can shout. dont make a fuss of him tho but he needs the exercise.

[observer]

I would use NILIF (kids need to as well) and neuter him, and see where you are. Rottie rescue may not an option if he truly has temperament issues and they do proper testing - they may not take him. But, it sounds like, at least at this point, it is something that could be worked out with time, effort, and everyone's cooperation.

[buddysdad]

sounds more like 3 boys have just been boys ang gave the puppy loads of excitement. get the dog out and be calm in the house with it no jumping pushing or playing roughly.

[Family Dog]

My boys have been great with our dog. They play with him no problem-especially now with all of our snow. None of them want to come in the house. The inside really has been quite calm lately.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do at the immediate time he growls at my boys when they want to pet him?

I will check out the links above more on the NILIF. Thanks

[dogsbydoug]

Originally Posted by Family Dog

Oh, as far as food, I feed him Canidae. The one for all age groups. The protein I believe is 22%. It is from a Whole food Pet store recommended by my trainer. I give it 2x/day about 8-9 cups total. He is a very big, but not fat AT ALL. He weighs at least 75 pounds already. Should this be changed in any way?

EIGHT to NINE CUPS per DAY?!?! YIKES! WHY is he being fed so much food?!?!

Canidae recommends 5-6 cups for puppies and 3-4 cups for adults 75-100 pounds...why is he getting twice that?!

Get back into classes and institute daily training for you and the kids. If the kids want to interact with the dog at all, they need to be interactive in his training as well.

Dog park - forget it - no need to go there - find a group of dogs he gets along with well, whose energy levels and temperaments are similar so nobody gets bullied, and set up playdates with those dog owners.

If he gets snippy about where he's fed, feed him in several different places in the house. Rather than mess with his food, simply call his name and say something like "what've I got?" or 'what's this?" in a happy voice and drop a tidbit in his bowl, praise him if he is good, touch him lightly on the butt and walk away.

As for growling when the kids want to pet him, it depends on what the KIDS are doing when they want to pet him. EVERYONE needs to be calm - if not calm, nobody gets attention...plain and simple. No exxagerated movement or sounds from the kids, no jumping from the dog - calm is good.

I would make an effort to up his walks daily as well.

[Family Dog]

My trainer asked me how much I was feeding him too and I told her. She was wonder why he was so lean then. I will simmer down on the food and see what happens. I have heard too much protein can cause a little aggression?? maybe, especially with not as much exercise as usual. I will up that too!!

With the kids all is calm many times. The other day he was in my office under my desk lying down and anyone who walked in got growled at. And today too when my 5 year old walked in he growled. Outside we have NO issues. Only in the house.

I am not able to do classes yet with all our snow. The gal I go to does not have indoor training and I have paid for 5 more sessions. We are due for another storm on Friday-Sunday.

[Colt's mom]

I see a HUGE red flag waving! I really think you need to "nip this in the bud" QUICKLY! I'm not a dog trainer but have been a vet tech and have been around rotties a long time. It would scare me to death if I had children and my dog(especially at five mos old) was growling at them! I know my rottie does not like being hugged and children do not seem to understand that. Also , dogs in a family situation will regard adults as alpha and see children as on the same level as them. I think you need to start finding someone well qualified who is willing to come to your house and work with you NOW, and would NEVER leave the dog and your children unsupervised! Neutering may help although it sounds like you have very serious temperament issues. I hope you get help soon, please keep us informed.

[Baxter's Mom]

I have heard too much protein can cause a little aggression??

I have never heard of this...

Outside we have NO issues. Only in the house.

It sounds more like he's gotten comfortable being the dominant one in the house... Is he spoiled? Gets away with things? What do you do when he growls?

On another note. Since his aggression seems to happen ONLY around your children, are you teaching your children how to act around "doggies"? Teaching the children manners?