Foster dog jumped at someone

[KatMc]

I'm lost here as she has never shown this behaviour towards me so I need advise on what to do.

She's a 5 yr old spayed female, she's been spayed about 2 months ago. She had a prolapsed vagina when I got her, then had to have emergency surgery for allergic reaction to her spay stitches which caused her to start licking herself open. When we went to the vet to get the stitches removed from her vagina she was agressive toward him and had to be muzzled. I figured that was due to all the surgery she had had and from being unsocialized in the shelter (he even felt the same). On our follow up visits to the vet, she is not at all friendly or relaxed with him. Again, I just kept it in mind.

Tonight I had some people over looking at both her and Malachai (thank God Malachai was his charming self). I was keeping my eye on her as she was acting a little nervous and the lady hasn't been around Rottweilers before. She was squatted down talking to Maddie (should I have not let that happen?), when all of a sudden Maddie jumped at her. There wasn't any contact, I had a good hold on the leash and she fell backward. I immediately removed Maddie and put her back in the house.

I realize I need to socialize her more and more severe training now, as all she has been getting is basic, sit, stay, walking, etc...

Help.

[JuneyB]

You have a lot of experience with fosters....I am thinking that additional interactions with strangers (definitely controlled environment) would allow you to get a better feel for what is going on with this girl. Maybe too many changes coming at her all at once? Or just never enuf socializing? Do you know much about her past? Just some thoughts....hopefully some of the rescuers will have time to provide some more astute insights.

[Carol Burke]

This is the whole problem with rescue dogs. You have no idea what you have until that dog becomes comfortable in your house, then the true dog starts to emerge. This can take weeks but usually months. You need to be very careful with this dog. You have already seen that she is not afraid to stick up for herself ie the vet and who knows what vibes she was getting from the woman who she lunged at. You need to really work on obedience with her and be very careful with people approaching her. I would absolutely not allow her near kids or near anyone that seems unsure. If you are planning on placing this dog it needs to be with someone who is very dog savy and has a lot of experience with Rottweilers.

Good luck.

[denverday]

If the lady was squatting to talk to her...didn't that put her in direct eye contact with Maddie???This is what I was stupid enough to do a few months ago, when I was given permission by the priest to pet his dog..I had started to squat while talking to her...as soon as i moved my hand slightly forward she lunged at me, trying to grab for my hand.
From what I've heard this can cause the dog to feel challanged...and react...this is why they say toddlers just walking up to a dog can cause them to feel challanged...direct eye level eye contact??
Just a thought...

[KatMc]

The only thing I know about her past is she was in the shelter for about a month, w/o ANY socializing there, they were keeping her separate due to her being "unadoptable" due to her prolapse, they felt it would be too $$ for anyone to adopt her. When I say separate, I never even saw her until I asked about her, then they brought her in from a dark corner.

She has some training, probably basic, there is no telling how long she was on her own, her prolapse was probably 4 inches out, so she had been "ignored" for ???

They were definitely eye to eye, which I do know better. I suppose I must have had an inkling, cause I was a little nervous (maybe she picked that up from me too?).

The bad thing is I wanted them to meet her thinking that she might be "easier" - I mean she has never shown this to me (unless you count the vet, which I obviously overlooked as a sign). And I have gotten in her face a number of times, both when she was licking out her guts and then when her and I were trying to keep her direction away from my cats. Plenty of times I would think for her to try to challenge me.

I know I'm not afraid of the dogs and that probably is one reason they don't challenge me, but I'm just totally at a loss.

Should I take her out and not let anyone approach her? or only approach when she is in a good sit stay? Then making sure they only stand up w/o kneeling down?

Do you think what she did was a "fear" reaction? Would a nervous reaction be the same thing?

She did NOT growl or anything, just lunged.

thanks,
Kathy

[Bucky's Mom]

Originally Posted by KatMc

Should I take her out and not let anyone approach her? or only approach when she is in a good sit stay? Then making sure they only stand up w/o kneeling down?

How is she when taken places and ignored? - How about a Home Depot parking lot on Sunday morning - just walking around seeing lots of people coming and going at a slight distance - would she be interested or overwhelmed by people just "being there"?

[denverday]

She did NOT growl or anything, just lunged.

The dog that jumped at me never made a peep until she lunged....she was tied to a tree and I belive was scared....so fear is possible...but not a good thing at all...

[KatMc]

To be honest she hasn't gone many places, which tonight was a wake up call to rectify that. So I'll try the parking lot where she can just observe w/o anyone trying to approach her.

[debbiej]

I don't have much experience with rescues except for my own two dogs. Neither of mine were from a situation where they had been evaluated, I was really on my own, with only a 'long distance' phone advisor, and of course this wonderful forum.

Hilda was a 'free to good home' type of situation, Boris had been in a shelter for quite a while. I had every intention of training the dogs and finding homes for them. (ha!)

Both had issues that needed attention and both needed a lot of training. We took on Hilda about a year before Boris. Every single new situation was approached as a situation that I needed to be careful in. Leashes, attention to intent, and suggestions to people who approached were the order of every day. Still I had some scares.

I'm sure you know all this, and it would seem likely that her health issues and undersocialization are the root of the problem, but I'd think some more evaluation and lots and lots of training would be in order.

[SABELLESMOM]

Your best bet in a similar situation, is to instruct everyone to ignore her, even tho you may have her on lead. She may likely relax and you should be able to visibly see the difference in her.

Save "introductions" for one or two confident people, who know enough to approach the dog a bit to the side, instead of head on, as most will. These selected folks also need to understand that bending over the dog is rather opressive and can be frightening.

Once she's successfully met the selected people, put her away for the evening. If it's an adult group you could have the crate situated out of the way, but where she can watch. But that's not necessary.

Whether on a walk or a social gathering, don't let yourself be pressed into making more than 1-2 introductions with her. She may need to acclimate herself slowly.

Keep some words ready for when someone asks like: "I'm sorry. We're training just now." or "We're working on her socalization skills, but she's had enough for today, thank you."

Now keep in mind, she and you will have to gradually increase her acceptance of human contact. She needs socalization, but perhaps not crammed down her throat... let her relax. She may never have been socalized.

Make encounters pleasant. You may treat and praise successful encounters, etc. You'll learn how to read her body language, when she's relaxed. That would be the ideal times for what you need to do.

As to the vet? If they feel more comfortable muzzling her, it's Ok. No need to make an issue out of anything. Just be upbeat and friendly. She'll take her cues from you.

[fostermom]

Although I can't offer anything as to why your foster lunged at the woman, I can add something to her reaction to the vet. I had an exceptionally sweet gsd/boxer foster who hated vets. Whenever they tried to examine her, she would growl and snap at them. I think given enough cummulative negative experiences at vet's offices, some dogs equate the vets with getting hurt and respond defensively. And it does certainly sound as if she's had alot of negative experiences at the vets. I would certainly be quite concerned about her reaction with the woman. Best of luck with her.

[twomanydogs]

I do not allow stangers to get that close with my mature fosters. I have no idea what may trigger them from a bad experiance in their past. I pass this on to new owners.I learned this the hard way with my third foster.
Just my opinion but a safe one...

[KatMc]

And I do want to say, Maddie will not be adopted out until this is trained or fixed, if possible.

I recognize the danger that she can pose and I am commited to either ensuring she becomes adoptable, or she stays with me.

Keep the ideas, suggestions coming, I do appreciate them!

Thanks all,
Kathy

[KatMc]

All, I rec'd an email from a member recommending that I get a DVD from ???????? training. I did a search but must be doing something wrong as when I search on ???????? I get lots of posts, but do not see "????????" highlighted, so I'm afraid I'm missing something (entirely possible).

As there are a number of members on here (both pet owner, breeders and trainers) that I trust, any feedback on thier training would be greatly appreciated.

As I've never had to deal with a dog like this, I am commited to doing what needs to be done. I've also PMd a couple of members looking for behaviourist recommendations in the DC, MD or NoVa area.

thanks,
Kathy

[BostonRott]

I'm not so sure I'd seek out a "behaviorist" as a good solid dog trainer. Someone with years of experience, many titles under their belt, etc. Someone who is familiar with the breed and who has worked with problem dogs.

The local rescues may be able to point you in the right direction. Personally, I feel that too many behaviorists have no real hands-on dog experience. They've read and studied books. That's nice. Doesn't cut it in my book. I'm not saying this of all behaviorists, but I see the "seek one out" phrase bandied around a lot lately and I do not think it's the end-all, be-all for problematic dogs.

I'm guessing you have several problems:

a) Lack of socialization, which at this point, can never be overcome. Instead, you must now work on de-sensitization. This will get you "so far" but truly, this may never be a social nor trustable dog. At 5yrs, she's most likely more than half-way through her life and some of her behaviors are very set and going to be hard to un-do.

b) She may have genetically faulty temperament (short-nerved/reactive). This again can not be undone, but worked around.

Bending down to greet a dog is a direct and strong challenge. It's a very bad idea with ANY dog unless you know them VERY well.

I would not allow this dog to "meet" ANY strangers. She's an accident waiting to happen. You can work on the desensitization stuff (internet has lots of info), and have her out around people, but under NO circumstances would I allow any of them to meet or pet her. She's proven herself untrustworthy already. Even when challenged, she had the choice to walk away and chose not to.

The only people that I would allow to interact with this dog are people you set up for her, who are dog savy and won't do dumb things like lean over, pet her over her head, stare at her, make hard eye contact, direct frontal approaches, etc.

Some dogs, once they've had a bad start in life, need to be accepted for what they are and part of that means a realization that they are "one person" dogs and not for "public consumption."