My Rottie killed my kitten...please help!

[sunstarr]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I've been searching all over the net for some help on this issue. My vet says give him away or have him destroyed. But I don't know if I could give him away to someone after he has shown such agreesive behavior. This has been devestating to everyone in the family. The kitten walked over by Toefield's food, he snapped and that was it.

I don't understand why he would do this. He's also killed another one of my cats only a month ago and a puppy that wandered into our yard. He's been raised with cats and got along with them very well as a puppy. For some reason, he decided to snap.

No, he's not registered and no I didn't get him from a breeder. I came across him by chance from someone who stole him with intentions to sell to pay for drug money. He was too young to be taken from his mother so I had to bottle feed him for about a week until he could eat solid food.

Before I get judged too harshly, let me explain...he's not left in the backyard all day without attention. He stays inside with the exception of being let out to do his business, but when he's out, sometimes he'll run off even though he's been taught otherwise. (I live on 16 acres) He gets plenty of attention and is very well cared for. He's never been to obedience training but he's been taught to sit, stay, roll over, NO!, shake, kiss and heel. Of course, I had plans to work with him on several things but now I'm not sure what to do or if there's anything I can do with a dog who's acting out this way.

This is a very sad situation for us. I love Toefield and would do anything to be able to keep him if only there's some way I can get him to leave my cats and other animals alone. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any responses.

[BostonRott]

I'm sorry you lost your kitten.....seeing such an event is not pleasant.

a) He should not be going outside off-leash, if he's shown you that he will run off.

b) He has a history of killing animals, so the kitten....well, I would have expected that. It doesn't take much to kill a kitten, especially "not much" from an adult dog.

It sounds like he may have food guarding issues, as well as potentially have prey drive problems (catching and killing animals). He needs to eat in isolation and other animals kept away from him during meal time. A crate would work well for this. In all honesty, this is not outside the range of "norm" for a dog. It doesn't mean you should allow it to happen, or not try to fix it, but many dogs have no use for other animals.

He didn't get off to the best start in life, you need to take him with his "lumps" or put him to sleep. You would be highly irresponsible to re-home such a dog.

You need to keep him apart from your other animals, pure and simple. A crate would be a suggestion, for when he can not be directly monitored.

[spidey]

I definitely agree with what Gretchen said.

Dogs are predators, sometimes they are going to act like predators. That's why we have to socialize them and obedience train them - we have to teach them how to live well with us, and to do that effectively we need to understand them and try to learn how they think. I do not think that what your dog did was really "aggression" so much as normal (if high) prey drive being allowed to have an inappropriate outlet (I would bet that he'd been "stalking" the kitten on some level for quite some time, but even so, you should treat him as a dog with resource guarding issues). We can't make the prey drive go away (in fact it can be very useful to us, that's where herding, retrieving and hunting instincts come from, as well as tug and fetch games), but we can channel it into something appropriate. That's where training and work come in. Training is training, but work can be anything (work is where the dog gets to use his training): pulling the laundry basket for you, herding, agility, obedience, rally, whatever. As long as the dog has to use his brain and body in a controlled manner, it's work. Rottweilers have been bred for generation after generation to NEED to work, so in addition to the other things you'll need to do if you decide to work with this dog, you'll need to find a job for him with an appropriate outlet for his prey drive, and you'll need to work him at it on a regular basis (this can be a lot of fun, which is good because it's not really optional in my opinion).

I commend you for being brave enough to ask for help about this and not just take what your vet says at face value, especially given how harsh it can be here for people in your situation sometimes (that said, your vet has seen your dog, we haven't). You sound intelligent and wanting to learn, and that's a very good thing. I completely understand from personal experience how upsetting these things must have been for you, but in my (non-expert) opinion this is possibly a workable situation if you are serious about it (and you have seen the consequences of not being serious about it). If you decide you can't work with him (which is okay), then please do not give him away, please euthanize him, giving him away would be highly irresponsible, there are too many dogs who do not have issues like high prey drive (which is not an issue at all in the right home, but can be difficult to manage and/or dangerous in the wrong one, and your dog has reinforced his high prey drive by killing smaller animals) who are in desperate need of homes.

Regardless of how or if you choose to proceed with this, you need to start managing your dog's environment right away. Keep anything prey-like away (including children, other dogs, cats, pretty well any animal), keep him leashed or crated, and get into training with a professional right away. In my opinion, it's quite likely that your dog was just being a dog, but at very least he clearly doesn't understand what is okay to chase and what isn't, so you need to teach him or at least control his reactions.

[RottieGirl86]

Originally Posted by sunstarr

He's also killed another one of my cats only a month ago and a puppy that wandered into our yard.

He killed a puppy? How old was the puppy and how did it die? I only ask because late rottweiler Sasha and my brother's Rocky both recognized puppies and act very carefully around them. They were highly tolerant, almost indulgent at letting the puppy play with them. It wasn't fear of the human's wrath either. They knew the dog was a baby and recognized it.

I have a Nanday conure. My girl will sit and stare... stare at the bird. She has a very strong prey drive, but the 2 are seperated unless the bird is with me (on my shouder) in the computer room. If she gives the bird the hard stare & won't knock it off, she's escourted out and the baby gate goes up. If i'm in the main room, Athena is crated to prevent her from eatting the bird.

Get him temperment tested. I understand dog/cat prey drive, but a puppy? it sounds kind of off. Plus, if you have an incident & they speak to your vet, he'll tell them he advised you to put him down. See a professional behavioralist for liability reasons alone, if you intend to keep the dog. Any law suit and your vet records become public, you need a professional to justify your dog is not a threat.

[spidey]

Many big dogs can accidentally kill puppies, especially dogs who were not raised with their litters and mothers.

[GypsysMom]

My Am. Bulldog killed a kitten that was orphaned in our yard, but that wasnt my cat,I know that I cant bring any other cats in my home as he doesnt like them all that much with the exception of mine, as far as the puppy incindent, did your dog accidently kill it? I know sometimes bigger dogs can be rough without meaning to..

[sunstarr]

The puppy was emaciated and wandered into our yard looking for food. I spent a total of $800.00 dollars on veterinary bills trying to save this puppy.

Toefield is a very intelligent, loving and affectionate dog. You can imagine how shocked I was to see how viscious he can be.

[sunstarr]

Originally Posted by GypsysMom

My Am. Bulldog killed a kitten that was orphaned in our yard, but that wasnt my cat,I know that I cant bring any other cats in my home as he doesnt like them all that much with the exception of mine, as far as the puppy incindent, did your dog accidently kill it? I know sometimes bigger dogs can be rough without meaning to..

No, he didn't accidentally kill it.

[jakesfostermom]

Sunstarr - my dogs will also kill cats/kittens, squirrels, and likely one or two of my dogs have the ability to jump on and seriously hurt a small dog or puppy that came into our yard. That doesn't make them dogs who aren't wonderful pets, and it doesn't make them "vicious". Dogs and cats aren't natural friends, your dog may have tolerated your cats when he was younger, and his prey drive has matured and he simply may not be safe with cats. There are lots of members here who have dogs like yours, and they have cats as well - they just keep them safely separated. As far as how he reacts to strange dogs in your yard, you either need to have a safe enclosure he can be in when outside, or this could happen again. It's a hard thing to accept that your dog can and will hurt or kill another domesticated animal - but it doesn't make him an impossible dog to have as a loved canine companion. You now know this about him - do the best you can to keep him safe and as a result, other animals will be safe from him. Don't condemn him because of this. Sure it hurts you - it makes you feel terrible - but dogs don't think/act/react as we do - we have to learn from our experiences and the only way to avoid that happening in the future is to do all you can as his owner to protect him. Only take him outside on lead and/or build him a safe enclosure to enjoy off lead supervised time outside. Find a great place in the house where the cats are safe from him, and separate them permanently. I don't see any reason why you can't continue to love this dog, and your cats.......no one said you have to do it with them all in the same room at the same time........... good luck!

[Sharon Marples]

I'm seeing some red flags here on how you "interpret" your dog. First of all he is a ROTTWEILER, not some little foo-foo dog that has no issues in their breed. I am sending some thoughts along, not to judge you harshly, but to try to understand better the situation you are in and to help you understand a bit about what you have written.

Food guarding, prey-drive, bad temperament (you don't know a thing about the temperaments of the generations behind him) and being taken from his siblings at way too young of an age are all indicative of what you are seeing going on.

The kitten walked over by Toefield's food, he snapped and that was it.

He should be allowed to eat in peace. If he feels he has to guard his food, this will only get worse.

I don't understand why he would do this. He's also killed another one of my cats only a month ago and a puppy that wandered into our yard. He's been raised with cats and got along with them very well as a puppy. For some reason, he decided to snap.

I'm thinking that he was probably showing small signs of getting to the point where he WAS changing his attitude towards the cats and you just didn't realize it. I bet the signs were there, but were missed. He is growing up, dog either become tolerant or intolerant to things in their homes, I think you missed the small signs of him with the cats. His prey drive is developing.

No, he's not registered and no I didn't get him from a breeder. I came across him by chance from someone who stole him with intentions to sell to pay for drug money. He was too young to be taken from his mother so I had to bottle feed him for about a week until he could eat solid food.

Very well the root of your problems. He was taken from his mother and siblings way too early, did not learn the bite inhibition and socialization skills with other animals that come from staying with his siblings until at least 7 weeks of age. Also, considering the source that you got him from, I would anticipate that he is definitely a BYB dog, and bred with no thought to temperament or stability of temperament.

....but when he's out, sometimes he'll run off even though he's been taught otherwise. (I live on 16 acres) He gets plenty of attention and is very well cared for. He's never been to obedience training but he's been taught to sit, stay, roll over, NO!, shake, kiss and heel. Of course, I had plans to work with him on several things but now I'm not sure what to do or if there's anything I can do with a dog who's acting out this way.

He has NOT been taught otherwise ~ If he was TAUGHT,he would not be doing this. He is doing it because you are giving him the opportunity to do so.
You need to get him into formal obedience classes and work the dickens out of him. I would also suggest that you do a search on the forums here for NILIF and initiate this program into your everyday life. Remember that everyone in the family needs to do this program, not just you. He needs to learn a bit more respect for you and to realize that you are the alpha in his life.

I believe that you CAN get the upper hand on his actions, but it will take patience and lots of training on your part.

Do you have children in the home? If so, PLEASE do not ever leave them alone with this dog. He has killed smaller animals, if a child does something he deems threatening, the results could be devestating.

In my opinion, you will never be able to trust him with cats and other small animals. He should not be around either without being on a leash and definitely not when he has a high-value toy or food.

Get him into the NILIF program and obedience classes. He needs a job to tire him out both mentally and physically.

Please don't ask him for kisses! He may (one day) get the idea that you are invading his "space" and that request could end up in a bite. Again,he is growing up, developing into a mature male, things are going to change in his attitude and the way he looks at his life.

I may have missed it, but how old is he? Is he neutered?

Good luck to you, please keep us posted on his progress.

[sunstarr]

He is 1 1/2 and he is neutered.

[rencook]

While cats and dogs by nature are not friends, they can get along in a home in which the owner demands respect from all animals. I live with 1 adult cat, 1 10mo. old kitten, a 4yr. old intact Rottie bitch, and a 12wk. old Malinois pup. All the animals interact on a daily basis and the dogs know they cannot chase, torment the cats. The older cat is a bit shy-and if she feels threatened in any way-I have made an escape route that she can get to the top of my fridge if need be. The kitten thinks he is a dog(he spent his first few months at a vet-very sick)-I have to be more careful with him-he will walk right up to both my dogs and swat them.
Both my dogs know a "leave-it" command, and when they even THINK about doing anything, they get a stern "leave-it".
Cats and dogs can co-exsist peacefully, but as an owners-we need to be very aware at all times.
Also, my Rottie girls very stong prey drive matured as she matured, so your boy-unless you do something now-will probably get more confident and his prey drive will get harder as he matures.

[hokisteph5]

It sounds like I've lucked out! One of the reasons I even looked at Samson was because the shelter said in his description "his best friend was a cat." Since I had cats, it was important to me that whichever dog I brought into the house get along with them. I had also read that when socialized with cats at a young age, the rottweiler is fine with them.

I also have baby gates up so that there are some safe areas for my cats. Samson or Gretchen could almost jump over them if they wanted, but don't. Behind the gates are where my cats' litterboxes and food dishes are.

About two months ago came the first real test of how Samson and Gretchen would react to a new kitten. They both became like little parents. The kitten was only about 3-4 weeks old so I had to bottle feed him. The vet talked to me about maybe needing to stimulate his bowels, but Gretchen took care of that indirectly - she had a habit of grooming him all over.

Three times now at night, I've caught the kitten sleeping with either Gretchen or Samson. Since then four more kittens have come into the household for fostering and both dogs are fine with them too.

The biggest challenge is watching the dogs with the kittens not because they would intentionally harm them, but because they don't seem to realize they're about a 100 times bigger than them. I've seen these kittens sleeping with both dogs too, but not at night since I put the kittens in a large carrier for their safety.

[Sharon Marples]

I said this in an earlier post:

In my opinion, you will never be able to trust him with cats and other small animals. He should not be around either without being on a leash and definitely not when he has a high-value toy or food.

And I should have edited that to add that this position can be changed to where he will accept your cats, but it (again) will take a lot of training on your part. You will never just be able to let this dog live his life the way he has been living it. He needs constant direction and constant corrections for ANYTHING that is out of the ordinary or out of the way you want him to behave. You will need to correct him for every sideways glance he gives to cats and small animals until he realizes that it is much safer for him to look the other way when he sees them. And by a correction, I don't just mean "stop that," I mean a real "come to Jesus meeting" type of correction, one that he won't be likely to forget.

He is young enough that I believe you can change him for the better. Get those training gloves on!

[sunstarr]

Thank you all for your input on this situation. I called a dog behaviorist/trainer who is willing to help me with Toefield. He informed me that Rottweilers don't respond as well as other dogs to regular training methods such as "NO!" or using a choker collar. Rottweilers are powerful dogs and need powerful reinforcement when training. So, I will try this and hopefully everything will work out for the best.

Thanks again,
Sabrina