Is she "herding" the kids? (sorry if a little long)

[Rhea's Mom]

Went to the lake cabin this past weekend. 6 adults, 3 kids (ages 5, 3 & 4 m-o) and Rhea (rottiegirl, 4 m-o)... Rhea loved the beach and the lake - went swimming for the first time (I was definitely more scared for her than she was for herself ) Rhea LOVES these kids, they're not ours (my bf's and mine), but Bret's brother's. They've known her since she was a little over 12 weeks and seen her at least once a week snce then, but she's either leashed or my hand is on her collar or within reach even though all she wants to do is give them sloppy kisses and butt wiggles. I've always noticed with Rhea that she is most comfortable when she can see all "her people" (me, Bret & his mom who's living with us for now). She wants to keep her eye on us and always know where we are. She seems to want to do the same with these kids, but I'm not certain if it's a good thing or a bad. Here's what she did:

1. Wherever they go (inside the house, but especially outside) she'll try to circle them on the outside and always be between them and whatever direction they're heading (talking about the 3 & 5 y-o)

2. While playing in the sand box, Ryan (5) decided to walk towards the house while I was still by the beach - maybe 20 feet away, Rhea by my feet. I called to him and told him to stop - he didn't listen, as I started walking toward him, Rhea ran infront of him and plopped herself down on the ground in an instant (so he would have ot step over her to continue going). She did the same thing when the 3 y-o was told she had to stay on the patio but disobeyed and decided to run down the handicap ramp (Rhea ran to the bottom of it using the side stairs and layed down on the ramp blocking the path)

3. As far as the 4 m-o baby - Rhea is allowed (my hand on collar always) to sniff her when they come over to our house or we go visit them. She gets a major case of butt wiggles when she smells the baby and keeps trying to lick the car seat, baby's boots or the corner of the blankey. This time when we walked into the house Rhea saw the car seat and went to sniff it (it was empty). Then she started walking around the house, sniffing the air and whining a little (she does it when her best friend - our cat - is hiding from her) until she found the baby in pack-n-play. She sniffed the side, came back to us (we were in the kitchen) and laid down facing the pack-n-play and appeared to have calmed down...

4. The 5 y-o was in the water (about thigh-deep), I was on the shallows with the 3 y-o. Rhea saw Ryan walking further (I told him to stop - he did this time). She ran into the water, swam towards him, made a circle, and came back to a more shallow water where she could just stand and look at him.

NEVER was there growling, barking, nipping or even jumping involved. Now, I know I tend to think the world of our puppy and want everyone to say that she's the best puppy in the word, the smartest, etc. I'm not sure what to make of this - is this her herding instinct? (I don't think it's aggressive behavior, do you?) Is this something she "has to do" or "enjoys doing"? If the latter one, how can I provide an activity for her that would satisfy this need / desire? Any ideas / thought are appreciated.

[Ayoka]

I have a friend with a border collie and this sounds similar to his herding behaviour but to a lesser degree.

You could come into problems if the kids don't move as she would like wish and she nips...or knock them over trying to corrall them.

Short of keeping her near (on leash) when kids are around, I'm not sure what you can do...others will chim in I'm sure!

[Rhea's Mom]

Originally Posted by Ayoka

I have a friend with a border collie and this sounds similar to his herding behaviour but to a lesser degree. You could come into problems if the kids don't move as she would like wish and she nips...or knock them over trying to corrall them. Short of keeping her near (on leash) when kids are around, I'm not sure what you can do...others will chim in I'm sure!

I'm not sure either ... Since she has behaved herself (no growling, jumping, etc), do I encourage this behavior, discourage it, leave it alone? Just worried about the kids and want to know what to make of it from Rhea's standpoint.

[Roxie's Dad]

I can't really comment on this from a owners point of view as "my" rottweiler is my fiance's and she lives with her. I would like to put forward my interpretation of what you posted however.

I kind of seems like herding but also some of it seems like she's looking out for them especially when you say that they were heading off when they shouldn't have and Rhea (lovely name btw ) blocked thier path.

It might get a bit intimidating for the kids as she gets bigger so discouraging may be the best option.

[Rhea's Mom]

Originally Posted by Roxie's Dad

It might get a bit intimidating for the kids as she gets bigger so discouraging may be the best option.

The kids did think it was funny and they don't get intimidated by her (they are tought to be gentle with her, no running, no teasing, no yelling, they tell her to come, sit down, and she obliges some of the time, especially if they have a treat for her) - being 5 & 3, and totally in love with Rhea - they stopped and petted her and completely forgot that they were planning on wondering off!

I've just never seen this behavior in a rottie pup or any pup for that matter, only in adult dogs that were trained for it - like my first GSD's mom was the same "herding" way, but she also "worked" on the farm... Would love to hear from some people on the forum that have working rotties to see if that's indeed herding (encourage / leave alone) or something bad that I should discourage for the safety of the kids and the puppy...

[smileygirl]

My three year old will pace the area the kids are in outside(I'm outside too) and find a nice place to lay down and ALWAYS headed in their direction to keep a watchful eye. When they are walking she is always polite not to block their way...let them on/off the stairs first ect. Inside she will pace the hallways if the kids aren't home and pick a place to lay so to see both bedroom entrances. Actually kind of strange we were on a camping outing with friends who have a little girl (4 at the time) mind you friends were OK with my rottie but not that they truly trusted or loved her in the way I do anyway we were all out by the firepit on the campsite and the little girl came running across and steped on the edge of the rim causing it to come up towards her and there my girl was with the fire rim resting on her body to avoid it knocking the little girl down(it probably would have caught her near her face). Since then the friends have had far more respect for rotties. Probably doesn't answer any questions but I think the key is supervision which it sounds like you have under control...also knowing your own dog individually...Good Luck...Tina

[netnalp]

If you have a video camera, perhaps taping the behavior and playing it for a trainer would be helpful in getting advice on this behavior and if it is desirable or not.

[LadyEvil2172]

Sounds like a little bit of herding to me. My girl Rebel does alot of what you were mentioning. We don't have any kids, but when I have my young neice and nephew over she will ALWAYS follow them, circling and watching them. It seems like she's just trying to protect them. I never leave them alone because they are so young I don't want them to get knocked over, which hasn't happened but you never know.

[Rhea's Mom]

Thanks, you guys :) For the comments - sharing your stories. I'll leave my little herder alone, but always supervise her as we do now.

[spoiledbabies3]

Rhea's Mom - Sasha used to herd this way. I don't know if it was considered a "good behavior" since I'm not an expert, but I do know that whenever a young one was around she would herd them "out of danger", i.e., headed toward the gate to the front yard, out of the garage, to the street, towards the swimming pool, etc. If they failed to "follow her" when she was herding, then she would "bark" so as to notify the adults that were within earshot and then she always "stayed put" and made sure we had remedied the potentially dangerous situation. It was almost as if she could "read their minds". We always said this was the "maternal instinct" in her...as she never had pups...she was a rescue and spayed. I also noticed that when we brought Moses home (now 5 yo) she "herded" him in much the same way. Like I said, I'm not an expert...but Sasha was pretty special...she was also one of the "talkers" of the rottie breed. Good luck with Rhea...and we always made sure someone was around when Sasha was with the children, even though she was as gentle as a lamb. It's always better to be safe.

[nsjak4ever]

My parents rottie "Sissy" herds my kids all the time. She wants to keep all 3 of my kids together. My kids are 8, 3, and 1. The 1 year old is normally carried, but when the 3 or 8 year old walk infront of us, she circles them just like you mentioned your dog doing. She's just helping. What's even more funny is when we go to their house to go swimming, she gets worried when the 3 year old (with a floatie suit and armbands- supervised of course!) goes near the pool, she will rush over to stop him, no matter where she is at in the yard. When the kids are in the pool, she'll sit there and whine at them. I think its rather sweet. Our puppy (12weeks)(Sissy's daughter as a matter of fact), isn't doing that yet. I'm sure she will one day.

[SABELLESMOM]

I don't see a problem with it as it is. But I'd like to make one small suggestion: I'd have the kids (individually) involved in some small training task, so Rhea doesn't feel she has totally the upper hand with them. For example (with you close by) Have one of them request a "sit!" from her, and the praise. Have another (oldest one) put her bowl down once she lays down, properly for it. And praise! She's young and should be quite willing to comply. Hopefully it will evolve into a way of life for her.

[Dugganmom]

My parents rottweiler tucker used to always "herd" the kids kinda like he was trying to protect them...or watch over them. If they walked to close to the end of the driveway he would stand infront of them...in the back yard he would always stand right next to them. I always thought it was the herding thhing...i thought it was really sweet. tucker was put down 2 months ago due to cancer. He was a really good dog.

[spidey]

I don't know that I'd encourage it, or even leave it alone, personally. My herding dog gets quite nippy when he gets into herding mode, and I would also worry about the dog thinking that the kids are beneath her (in the sense that she gets to boss them around). Please also keep in mind that herding instinct is based in hunting/prey drive, I try to direct my dog's herding drive toward things which are appropriate, and people aren't it (even so, when he gets excited, he herds anything that moves).

[Dugganmom]

Tucker NEVER EVER tryed to nip or bite...he also never got overly excited but my parents took him to alot of training classes so that might have something to do with it. but just because one dog does not nip ect..does not mean every dog is like that. I would keep a really close eye on your dog in case the dog is nipping or getting over protective. Every dog is different.