To Praise or Not to Praise

[JaniceH]

On occasions Teazle gets a scent and she is off. There is no point in me calling her because she either doesn't hear me because she is so focussed or she ignores me because she chooses to.

Also occasionally she might chase a deer (this is a rare occurrance) which she sees before I do, so I am unable to give her the leave it command.

On each and every time, she returns within seconds or a minute. If she does dissappear from sight, I don't know how she remembers where I am, but she seems to. Anyway, I never really know how to deal with her when she comes back. I don't like her doing this and feel like shouting at her when she does return, but can't because she does come back and that is a GOOD thing. Therefore, I simply call her to me when I see her returning and carry on walking as though nothing has happened. Is this the best way of dealing with it?

I don't think I could get her out of it unless someone has any advice. It is not as though it happens regularly and when it does it is so quick. I did once try and set her up in a field of deer and was ready to train her that chasing is a no no, but she behaved impeccably and wouldn't chase !!!!!!

For your info, she is very good at the recall in every other instance, even if she is sniffing intently at something, but it is just the special scent of a badger or fox, or perhaps a dead sheep in the bracken which she chooses to put her nose down and follow. (If it is a dead sheep, then once she has found it and I tell her to Leave it, she will and will come back to me). If she is in follow mood then as I said I don't even ask her to come.

I have never had a dog which pursues scent as intensely as she does, albeit on rare occasions, and I just don't know the best way to deal with it.

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

[dennisj]

Several years ago in an obedience class I was attending the trainer discussed this issue. I never walk my dogs loose so I've never had this problem. She suggested walking the dog on a long 30 ft. light nylon training lead. When the dog starts to run off, wait till she is near the end of the lead and give a strong NO command then hold on tight when the lead stops the dog. She said it wouldn't take too long for the dog to understand that your command is to be obeyed.

[JaniceH]

Hi Denise,

Thanks you for the reply.

Firstly, because of where I live and believe me I have used a long line when I was first training Teazle, I found the rope getting so tangled in the bracken, it wasn't an easy training tool. She is a very energetic girl and runs alot with zoomies, and the line became quite tangled in her legs and around rocks. So I gave it up as a bad job. However, she had become very good at the recall and it is only recently that this behaviour has started. It only happens on occasions and I don't know how to handle it.

Secondly, I don't think she actually hears me or perhaps she switches off when in this mode. Normally she is so good even when there are other distractions, it is just the following a scent thing.

How should I handle her return?

[jojapeach]

Since you do call her when she's in view, I think you would want to praise her for responding to that recall.

[spidey]

IMHO, you should ALWAYS praise a recall. If your dog's recall isn't solid, the way to manage this is to keep the dog on a leash. The fastest way to lose a recall is to not reward it. NEVER punish a dog for coming to you, and NEVER fail to reward a recall, no matter how leisurely it is.

[Gunsey'sMom]

What goo advice , Spidey! I can't agree more! This is a good reminder to me as well as I am working on recall with Gunner.

I would like to add to that, make sure everyone in teazles life is on the same page too!(other halves, and children for example) I am not sure if this applies, but I know there are times when I am afraid that Gunner will get punished even for sort recall , and have to intervene- That is damage I don't want to happen, and don't want to undo for sure!

[miccmill]

Originally Posted by spidey

IMHO, you should ALWAYS praise a recall. If your dog's recall isn't solid, the way to manage this is to keep the dog on a leash. The fastest way to lose a recall is to not reward it. NEVER punish a dog for coming to you, and NEVER fail to reward a recall, no matter how leisurely it is.

With my handler soft dog, not rewarding or worse yet, punishing a recall would be the end of our progress for a very, very long time, if not forever.

I still keep her on a very long line when we're in a park or field so I can "reel" her in if she gets overcome by something more interesting than me and even then, I'm praising the whole time she's coming towards me with a treat at the end.

[Curt]

If it were my dog and it does not listen to your recall comand to come.It would not be off the leash to do whatever it wants ever.That's how a dog runs away or is hit by a car ect.That's my two cents but what the hell do i know .Good luck with the training.
Later Curt

[VANCOUVERISLANDROT]

We've been lucky with Oscar off leash (he's only off leash in off leash dog trails, out in the bush, the beach etc) since he was a young pup. He just doesn't seem to have any desire to bolt on us at all. Once he didn't come when called when he got too far ahead and we had to corner him. We immediately leashed him for about 10 minutes and then let him loose again. It was never an issue again. He prizes being loose on those walks too much!

[debbiej]

I don't know a place, in all honesty, to take Boris that I would let him off lead. His recall and desire to please is better than Hilda's but his drive is so much greater, that I'd never trust him, yet. I look forward to the day I can take my dogs walking off lead, but I've only done it a few times in the desert with Hilda, and never with Boris. It may be better for Teazle to be on a longer lead, and then you can correct her if she tries to take off, and you can assure her compliance with your call, and praise her for it. Of course, I don't know your dog or the situation you have for walking.

[StephanieandToby]

If I am walking a dog that runs off into the bushes I don't call it at all. I remain perfectly silent and keep moving. If I call the dog's name over and over, knowing full well they will ignore me...all it does is let them know exactly where I am, so they can continue to ignore me.... If I remain completely silent, they usually come racing out of the bushes in a panic, looking for me and the other dogs....afraid to be left behind.

I think it's the dog's job to keep his eye on ME...as leader...rather than the other way around.

I don't praise them when they return....I jokingly say, "Keep up or die!"

Of course if the dog responds to a recall...you should ALWAYS praise them.

I just hope that the places you let your dog off-leash are safe areas...not somewhere it could be struck by a vehicle...or get lost.

[SABELLESMOM]

Guys, Janice lives in England. Things are very different over there with regard to places a dog can be off lead. That, and Teasle does come back.

It's a question of calling or not calling, rather than praise or not praise. The point is, if you call her...you must reward the return. In no way can you make it unpleasurable. If you duck down and hide, or keep walking (great description, Stephanie) the dog becomes alarmed, and actively looks for you.

[Curt]

I still say if a dog is not reliable on recall.It is a liability for you and the dog period.It doesn't matter whether your in the woods in your yard or at the park or on the beach .If your dog dosn't come to you when called off leash it should not be off the leash unless it is in the house.You would be surprised how far a dog will chase a deer.I know from having coon hounds that a rottweiler will chase them just as far as a black and tan or a plott will and just keep right on chaceing.I'm not trying to be mean just things i have seen not only with dogs iv'e owned but with friends dogs also.
Later Curt

[JaniceH]

Thank you all for your replies and advice which I do value. Also thank you Sabellesmom for your support.

I have never punished or shouted at Teazle when she has returned to me on these occasions. As I said in my initial post, although I feel annoyed inside, I don't show it to Teazle as she has been a good girl in coming back. When I see her and do call her, I do it in an up beat way. I even think I actually do say "good girl" when she is back by my side. What concerned me is if I made a big fuss ie. gave her a lot of praise, would she then think that mum was pleased that she had actually followed a scent or would she associate it more with the return?

She has always returned very quickly and I do not know whether that is because the scent has ran dry or because she realises I am not there and panics. When out on a walk, although she confidently trots ahead of me, she does look around from time to time. Also if I stop, she comes running back (can't even go for a pee without her running back and sitting practically on top of me !!!).

Teazle is always on the lead where there are roads or it isn't safe (steep mountain sides). I live in the country where there are mountains and moorland, rivers and lakes. It is very safe and she has learnt not to chase sheep and is frightened of cows. It would be a shame to keep such a lively girl on a lead because even on a long one she can't run.

However, if I have to do this and it is something I have thought about, then I will. I really just wanted to know, if I was to allow her her freedom, then what was the best way to manage it.

Thank you again for your advice.

[poohbearsmom]

NEVER EVER EVER EVER punish a dog for coming to you.

If you have to go get the dog, it's one thing, however, if you're almost to the dog, and she turns to you and comes, you must praise her for doing so.

I would suggest that you do some long line work with her on the recall, so you can proof the recall some more.