do you have to be physical with a rottie

[mrsgrubby]

Ok, we had a rottweiller nine year ago. I can't remember all we did to train her, but I do remember putting her in obed. class and also scruff shaking her when she was young.

She was a great dog but died last winter.

We got another rottweiller puppy and the trainer we began working with was wonderful and felt that owners do not need to be physical with any type of dog, that positive methods work just as well. We took two classes from him and our dog seemed to do well, although he mentioned that she seemed to have a high prey drive.

However, she is now a year old and I am seeing some behavior things I don't like.

I signed her up with a new trainer, the other one didn't have any appropriate classes available. This new trainer seems quite aggressive and suggests that I need to get her attention and let her know who is boss, by scruff shakes and "take downs" Well the dog is 87 pouunds so I am likely to get hurt trying to take her down as I am a small adult. And scruff shakes don't seem to do anythign except get her riled up, maybe because I have never done it before. I think even though this trainer is good with mellow dog breeds, she is off base with rotties and I am afraid she is going to get me bit.

Two main things she is doing... Herding me/grabbing my pant legs, I posted this a few weeks ago and have been working on this. And now last night she began protesting when I gave her a leash correction for barking at another dog. First she glared at me and continued to bark, and when I gave her another one she grabbed my sleeve of my coat. Lastly she still soemtimes grabs my hand with her mouth, which I hate.

Do rottweillers need their owner to be physical with them to "get it"? I swear it just winds this girl up like it is a game or a battle of wills or somethign.


I make her sit for attention, or to throw a ball. She never asks to go outside, but I tell her when to go out and go potty. She never askes to be fed, but I feed her two times a day and call her over and tell her to eat. She really seems to care less if she eats or not.
She "drops" items pretty well, sits well, stays well, heels well, has a good recall, and is an overall nice dog. She is not allowed on the bed or furniture, is really well socialized.

How can I ensure that these few bad habits are nipped in the bud and don't get worse?

[spidey]

Regardless of training philosophy (i.e. whether you use corrections or not), scruffing and take downs are rarely appropriate and are a good way to get yourself bitten (take downs especially are based on faulty and outdated information). If you train with physical corrections, you use an appropriate training collar and lead and give the correction that way. I'd be looking for another trainer, this one sounds like bad news to me.

[rottgirl]

Congrats on the new puppy

Our trainer does not believe in scruffs or take downs, her technique to establish you as Alpha Dog is to first be quick with the corrections - a quick snap of the leash and also "a growl or grumble" like dogs do in packs to establish the pecking order.At first growling at our dog seemed silly but she caught on real quick I was the boss not her.

We adopted a rescue (Paradise) 1 1/2 ago at the age of 7 months and at first I admit I felt sorry for her because she had been neglected/abused by her prior owner and had little training but our trainer assured me I need to establish the Alpha Dog or she would never respect me. (the trainer called me a marshmellow - however, having worked with the trainer and Paradise for the last 1 1/2 I have really toughened up and the dog is doing great.

I'm sure others with more experience then me will chime in
Good Luck
Michele

[LavenderRott]

If you think your trainer is too aggressive, then he probably is. Scruffing and "taking down" a dog with a high prey drive is a pretty good way to get yourself bit and I bet this trainer would blame it on the dog and not the training method.

Sorry, I would keep looking for a new trainer.

[debbiej]

I went to a trainer with Boris for a while, some of the methods helped a lot, some were abhorrant to me. Some I felt were likely to get the trainer bit!! I'd think you need another trainer too. You and the dog need to come to an understanding on who is in charge..and it has to be you, but it really can't be a physical match between you, like you say, you'd probably lose. A good trainer can teach you how to properly correct such behavior, and at the same time gain your dog's respect and confidence.

[JeanT]

Do rottweillers need their owner to be physical with them to "get it"? I swear it just winds this girl up like it is a game or a battle of wills or somethign.

Look for another trainer, or maybe see if the first trainer can give you some private lessons.

You are quite correct in your observation that "getting physical" is upping the ante, and you are also correct that you will not win the fight. Think of this: Dogs in certain sports are "agitated" into becoming even more intense for the "game". One of the ways is by restraining the dog and "hitting" (with something soft, it doesn't caue pain) to get it even more riled up. However, this is done by knowledgeable people who are directing the dog's drives toward a target. Your new trainer is making you the target.

Look for another trainer, and another, until you find one who appreciates dog behavior and learning.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Originally Posted by spidey

Regardless of training philosophy (i.e. whether you use corrections or not), scruffing and take downs are rarely appropriate and are a good way to get yourself bitten (take downs especially are based on faulty and outdated information). If you train with physical corrections, you use an appropriate training collar and lead and give the correction that way. I'd be looking for another trainer, this one sounds like bad news to me.

I couldn't agree more.

[mrsgrubby]

Thank you everyone for your answers. If others have more to add, please do so.

I'd really like to solve these issues before they get cemented in her mind, especially the biting at my hand at sleeve. At her age (1 year) this is unacceptable. Unfortunately the traditional Yipe OUCH seems to egg her on. Time out and walking away work well at home, but I can't walk away in the middle of class. Would a stern glare back and a leash correction suffice?

Do any of you have any suggestions on how to seem more of a leader to her? As mentioned above, since she doesn't ask for much as far as going out or food, the only thing she seems to ask for is throwing a ball, so I make her sit, or stay, or whatever. I also work on drop and leave it each night to better instill those commands.

She comes to work with me a few times a week, but our office is quiet for the most part, yesterday I took her to the park at lunch which was busy, but normally we walk out in the country where it is quiet.

Someone suggest to me to stop with "loose leash walks" in the morning and instead, make her heal or walk behind me. I will try that too.

[Romana]

I agree with everybody who said that being physical won't do any good to you, as well as to change the trainer. I am not an expert, actually am a rookey at having a rottie, but I have done so much with Tyro NEVER ebing physical. I think that positive training will get you much farther, than scruffing or takedowns. There are a couple of good books (actually, I'm sure there are more than just a couple) I have found very useful, and learnt so much from. I've been working on my own with Tyro. I know al of you take your dogs to OB classes and other kinds of training/efucation classes, but I can't afford them, I'm "just" an English teacher, and teachers don't earn much here in Italy. Well, the books I found extremely useful are "How to be the Leader of the Pack and Have your Dog Love You For It!" by Patricia B. McConnell, "The Power of Positive Dog Training" by Pat Miller and "How Dogs Learn" by Mary R. Burch. this is not any kind of publicity, I'm just sharing with you the books I have found useful and helpful.
My opinion is that with the positive reinforcement you can obtain much more than any physical methods, unless you want your dog to be afraid of you, and eventually bite you one day. Tyro is NOT food motivated, so I found out that he absolutely adores playing ball, and he would do anything to get me to throw the ball for him to fetch. You can use it too as a reward. It's nowhere written that the reward has to be only food. Keep your sessions chort, more often and above all in high spirits. Take it as a play for you and your dog and it will help you to establish a great relationship with your dog.
I repeat, all I've said is only from my personal experience, saying what worked for me.
Have fun with your dog and good luck

[Skip]

Get yourself a trainer that you like. My opinion on getting physical is this...I think a correction should be strong enough to change the dog's mind. I'm all for positive reinforcement, but if a leash pop is necessary I would much rather see someone use a forceful leash pop to get the job done rather than a dozen little tugs on the leash that eventually just gets the dog to the point that it ignores the nagging corrections.

[mrsgrubby]

Thanks, do you have any suggestions what correction I should use when I give her a leash pop as a correction and then she turns and glares at me and grabbs my hands, or the leash in response to my correction?

[Skip]

Originally Posted by mrsgrubby

Thanks, do you have any suggestions what correction I should use when I give her a leash pop as a correction and then she turns and glares at me and grabbs my hands, or the leash in response to my correction?

How old is the dog? What type of collar? What was the situation?

[Rangers Mom]

A couple of quick things: 1) A good trainer will be able to show you how to hold your leash (taking advantage of your center of gravity vs. the weight of the dog) so that your pooch is less likely to gain the upper paw in situations of concern (this was key for me!); 2) In your quest for a trainer, be sure to find one that likes Rotties. We experienced one guy who, when we asked about some 'rough and tumble' type behaviors responded "What do you expect? He's a Rottweiler." Not an appropriate answer in our estimation; 3) There are lots of good trainers out there and when you find the right one, you'll know it. I found that with our situation, it was a matter of teaching *us* how to send the correct messages/corrections. I suspect that this is common. Good luck.

[Wolf355]

From what I understand, your dog seems to want to play after a correction and really doesn't care about the fact that you gave the correction. Seems like she's not taking you seriously and thinks you want to play. As far as I understand she's not agressive towards you though....right?

This seems to indicate that you do not have the proper tool to get the dog to understand barriers. Perhaps you lack the uper body strenght to give the dog a proper correction? One thing I usually do is bring the collar up behind the ears. This is a sensitive area and does not require as much strenght to correct. Usually a chocker will work just fine in this case...just make sure it's not too big for the dog or it will have a tendancy to slide too far down the neck and you will have to work harder to correct the dog. If this doesn't work, you may need a prong collar at first to get your point accross to the dog. Make sure you don't correct too harsly though since it takes less force than with a normal chocker to get your point accross. In either case, your corrections should always be a quick snap and release as opposed to a tug ( you'll never win if you tug ;-)

Also, you may want to have a leash on the dog at all times so you can correct it quickly and easily.

In any case, I suggest ( as have the others) that you find a competent trainer who will teach you how to get along with your dog.

[Roxys dad]

Sounds like my little girl to a T. She didn't used to be this way either. . . she just started acting up recently. Good advice here. Thanks to those who contribute.