Raising and Training Two Littermates

[Spike]

Willy and Spike formally introduced as "Bookends" are now 10 weeks and growing nicely.These guys are from the same litter, 2 of 3 survivors of a litter of 10 born to a young 11 month momma.
We have them now about 4 weeks and they seem very happy.
They seem to enjoy each others company more than humans.
They enjoy the cuddling time we give them several times daily, but get restless except when really tired and squirm to get down after a few minutes to seek each other out

Their play together is somewhat rough typically ending in a tangled tumble with lots of growling and teeth.
They do not seem to hurt each other much and I've assumed this to be normal puppy play.

For those of you that have raised more than one at a time, do they become more people focused with time, and should I be concerned over the frequent play fighting?

[AngelBunny]

You can't let them spend every single minute in each other's company. If you don't do this, they'll grow up more dog focused than human focused; humans will be of secondary interest to them, quite the reverse of what their focus should be. Becoming interested in & focused on humans isn't something that the puppies will learn w/o being directly taught by the people in the family that people are the best.

This means that you take one puppy out & about with you while the other stays home or goes out somewhere else with someone else in the family. You must teach the puppies to be independent of each other. It's fine to let them play together & you can take them places together, but they must spend chunks of their time away from each other and interacting with humans.

As to the scuffling & fighting, that's normal. Just make sure they don't get too wound up & separate them for a cool down when they do.

[Mick Trainer]

I agree with AngelBunny. Seperate these dogs for your and their sakes. Keeping them together will effect them in many negative ways from total dependance or each other, being dog focused, lowering confidence and nerve threshold. The list could go on and on. Separate these pups as much as possible, and take them out to face the world separately.

Mick.

[Sara]

What AngelBunny and Mick said.

I have two (male and female, known together as "the Monsters"), currently 8 months. I never separated them when they were young and although I'm Alpha (barely), they are definitely bonded with each other at a totally different level. If I had found this group earlier in our familyhood I would've known better how to handle things. Now I'm doing repair work.

This is NOT to say that I'm strictly secondary, although I do joke my only use is my ability to use a can opener.

My completely amateur, new parent advice - give them lots of "one on one" time now, as well as all together time. If nothing else, it will significantly help you with training to have them separated and comfortable being without their Tweedle.

Sara
Proudly owned by Lady and Bear

[Carol Burke]

Mick and AngelBunny are both correct. Your puppies need to discover that people are a better focus then each other. Crate them seperately at night and give them individual time with you. The playing is normal and although it sounds terrible they are learning bite inhibition and how to get along with others. Good Luck!!!

[Spike]

Thanks to all for your thoughts and sharing your experiences. I am really impressed with this website.
We are going to introduce a second crate to keep the pups apart for at least some of the time. Not sure if we will do this all the time, perhaps just the daytime hours they are alone but allow them to sleep togehter. Any thoughts?
Saw the vet today for second round of shots.
We weight 15.5 and 15.1 pounds.
I seem to think this is a bit low still but we have gained around 9 pounds in the last 4 weeks.
Vet tells me at this age these guys should be able to go the night without wetting the crate.
We have not yet been that controlled.
Once we add the second crate, I am going to limit their space to big enough to lay down and not much more.
Vet siad it is ok to confine them like this even for the day hours they are crated.
Sound right to you folks?

[rottiholt]

The crates should be big enough for them to stand up & turn around in.
They should not be togethere all the time. This is only gonna make things worse.
As far as leaving a ten week old pup in the
crate all nite long the rules are 2 months they can stay in the crate & hold their bladder for 2 hours 3 tops.
5 months old 5 hours 6 tops. It is ALOT of work to train / crate train 1 puppy but you
have 2. You need to be prepared to shell out
ALOT of time to do things the correct way so
you won't be looking for a home for one of them at a later date.
Good luck.

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[Spike]

If it is only reasonable to expect the pup to go 2-3 hours without wetting in the crate, what do people do?
The thought of getting up every 2 hours to take them out does not seem practical.
My employer does not offer maturnity leave benefits for the adoption of puppies
Should I just give them lots of space in the crate so that they can wet away from where they sleep until they are older?
Am I wasting my time trying to housebreak this young?

[marianne]

Spike. Isn't it fun with two puppies!! Now is the foundation of what these pups will be. They need their own territory! The crates serve many purposes,protects puppy,protects your home,protects your sanity!!!!There should be no reason why the pups can't stay in their crate all night. Just remember to curtail liquids during the evening. Take them out before crate time to go potty. Good luck with your pups!!!

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[marianne]

I forgot...Sheets make very good crate pads. The fancy ones can come after there are no more accidents. But again those pups should train very easy in there own crates.