Introducing a new puppy...

[jade]

This is actually the last porion of a post that I haven't gotten a response to on the General Info column. I decided it was now a behavior issue, so I thought I'd try to elicit a response again. As an FYI, the entire thread is under "Picking the Right Puppy" in General Info. Here goes:

OK, we've followed the seasoned advice on this page and it has been helpful - but we need more help.
We found the puppy that chased the ball the most and after visiting the litter three times, it is the puppy we like most as well. This should bode well for training...

The final act was to introduce our 13 month old female to the ten week old male before we took him for good. A couple of months ago I asked the question about introducing a new puppy to our female, Jade. The response was to pick a neutral site where neither dog had been. This is what we did.

When they met, Jade approached and sniffed and became tense. He sniffed back and they both wagged their tails. She then barked and chased him as if trying to play. He became scared at her barking and retreated multiple times. I never let them interact in an unrestrained manner fearful of what Jade may do because even when leased she tried to show her dominance by mounting him - I'm not sure why a 65 pound female has to mount an 18 pound male but the drive for pecking order dominance obviously runs deep.

When they approached each other, every time Jade sniffed and wagged her tail and then growled and barked. The puppy would hide and seemed interested in playing until Jade showed signs of aggressiveness. We were told that because he's a puppy and male, she would take to him - this didn't seem to be the case. While she didn't do her typical bared teeth and raised hair on her back like with other dogs, I was uncomfortable letting them play in an unrestrained manner. Therefore she could feel my resistance on her harness which I think makes her worse. She wagged her tail and barks and even puts her rear in the air and head on the ground (like when her and I wrestle and play), but I didn't want her to hurt him. Even if she had no malicious plans, her weight and size would clobber him.

Our final attempt will occur on Friday. They are bringing the pup to our house to reintroduce them. We really want this puppy and are hoping for some more valued advice we can apply. If anyone has ideas, PLEASE HELP!!!!! Two rotties that have to be kept separated simply will not work so if this seems evident to the experienced masses out there, please advise.

Thanks again.

[Titan]

We recently had the privelage of introducing a 10 week old puppy to our 7 year old Rott. I must say that I was very concerned at first. Titan, the 7 year old, would almost pounce on the puppy. Never hurting her at all, but definately scaring the crap out of her. I too would restrain Titan and only let him sniff at her from a distance. I finally just left them alone. After about 2 days, Titan simply regarded her as one of the family. He was very assertive with her at first. Growling constantly at her, especially if she dared chew on one of his toys. Your older dog will take her cues from you. As she sees you interact with the puppy she will learn that it is okay that the puppy is now part of the family. It is not easy by any means, but will eventually work out. Also, I made sure to spend extra time with Titan to reassure him he was not being replaced as mama's boy! He didn't seem very receptive at all at first, but out puppy is 5 months old now, and they play, eat and sleep together!! I wouldn't give up just yet! Good Luck!

[jade]

Titan,

Thanks for the encouraging words!! I'm happy to hear someone else has navigated a similar situation. Your advice is great and makes sense - we'll apply it this weekend. It takes alot of courage to let them play together unrestrained - I guess I can hold and play with the puppy and let Jade unrestrained for the first hours anyway. I can take care of Jade if she accidentally hurts me / the puppy can't. We're looking forward to this test - thanks again!!!

[MJ22LAM]

Jade,

We dont have a 2nd dog of our own, but my boyfriends mother has a 6 yr old female Rott mix, and a 2yr yellow lab. We introduced our Sammy to them at 9weeks. The rott mix exhibited the same behavior as your girl. they would chase a little, the little guy would stop and submissively sit, when the female growled or seemed tense. It seemed more of a mother/child type thing, the way the pup acted. She pounced, but never injured him in any way. It has been 3 weeks and we spent alot of time there, (we go to swim and visit quite frequently as they have a pool and 25 acres for Sammy to play on.) and both females are quite comfortable, He has stayed overnite a few times, and we have had no problems. It was the same when we introduced him to his two cats also. It will work out.
Good Luck,
MJ

[jade]

MJ,

Thanks to you as well for the encouraging words. It seems that if we can convince Jade (who is used to being Queen B and quite spoiled!!) that the puppy is part of the family and she won't suffer for it (attention wise), we'll make out OK. It will be a challenge. Thanks for the support and we'll keep everyone posted on the outcome.

[Nancy Estes]

Do you have to have them together at this point? I'm not saying don't let them see each other but can't you separate them with a doggy gate across doorway or something like that? I've never put two strange dogs together, even if they've met in a neutral place, until they've got to know each other through a fence, doggy gate, whatever, to see how they reacted. I usually do this for several days, then let them together on leash or supervised and go from there.

Nancy

[frontierrots]

I agree with Nancy about having them live
in the same house but separated by a baby
gate works well.

I NEVER allow pups to play with grown
dogs until they weigh 50+ lbs and only then with dogs that don't play too rough. The possibility for injury is huge at this point. Supervised gentle face fighting is fine but not chasing and wrestling and getting run over.

I sold a pup to a person years ago with
an 18 month old male and gave them this
same warning which they did not heed and
this pup ended up having permanent neck
injury and a head tilt because of rough
housing with a heavier adult dog

------------------

Diane
Frontier Rottweilers & Shiba Inu
www.frontierrots.com

[katheyt]

I brought a new pup home to 2 full grown dogs in Feb. I didn't let them do much more than see each other for months. At about 4 mos I let my pup play with my male ( my other female was old and sick so we kept them apart)always supervised. My old female was very dominant of my male when I brought him home but with time they too got along.

[jade]

All great advice. Since we were going to keep the new male in the kitchen for now, we'll block off the doorway to the den so that they'll be able too see each other but not physically interact. Although I'm sad to hear that the puppy received permanent neck damage from playing with the older male, I'm glad someone has illustrated my concern. It sounds like a very controlled, long term introduction is the answer. To address the question, no we don't have the puppy now. We will keep the puppy from Friday through Sunday and hopefully be able to reevaluate if this is feasible. Again, thanks for the suggestions and we'll try it out!!

[timeeb]

I had a little different problem when I got my Rottie. I had a 10-year-old Terrier Mix (20 LBS) when I got my Rottie , (Rescued Puppy) they were about the same size when I got the Rottie. When they were introduced to each other the Terrier dominated the Rottie. As funny as it seems, the Terrier (now 12-year-old) still dominates the Rottie (now 90 LBS).

My Rottie (Sasha 'the Rottie who thinks she is a lap dog") has been 'protected' by the Terrier at our local park when she, the terrier feels other dogs are play to rough with Rottie.

[AngelBunny]

Jade:

Hang in there with your older dog and the new baby. I know from personal experience that introducing a very bossy-Queen Bee [spayed] bitch to a puppy (female in our case) can work.

Riga was 6 at the time we decided to have another Rottie join our home. We decided to work thru the rescue program, since we're interested in Rotties as friends & companions.

The three of us drove to see a male who was about 15 months old. As soon as Riga laid eyes on him, it was hate at first sight. Max came bounding over to play, all wiggly & happy, big smile on his face. Riga charged to the end of her leash, hackles up from the top of her head to the tip of her stubby tail. Her lips were curled completely back over her teeth & the growling sounds she was making were hideous. Max thought it was all a game, but I know Riga--she didn't think it was funny & for whatever reason, she didn't like Max.

End of that.

The next dog we met we took home with us. Tula was 5 or so months at the time. Riga took one or 2 sniffs and then pretended that the puppy didn't exist for the rest of our visit. Mo & I would try to coax her to come over to us & the puppy; Riga would come over to us for petting, but ignore the puppy. Figuring that it was better adopt a dog that she ignored than one she wanted to kill, puppy joined our family.

We've now had Tula about 17 months. During the first few months we were very careful not to let Riga bully the puppy nor roughly play with her. Tho we have 70 acres, when we walked the 2 of them, both were leashed, or puppy was off the leash while Riga was leashed. We used a baby gate to keep them apart for the first few months. We played with them separately & did things with them separately. When the four of us were together, we made sure that Riga didn't bully the baby. And we still keep an eye on this.

Riga bossing Tula was something we watched. Riga (aka Miss Bossy Boots & Queen Bee) made sure the puppy knew her place was as number two. We're still very careful to make sure that the bullying doesn't get out of hand.

From the start, we made sure that Riga felt secure as top dog. We fed her first, greeted her first, she got treats first, & so on. We still do these things.

Tula is very easy-going, the primary reason that it's been OK for us to have 2 females. When I was a kid, we had 2 bitches who hated each other. The savageness of their fights is nothing like I've seen in fighting males. Knowing how bad things can get between females, we're make sure that Riga understands, that while she's important to us, this doesn't mean she can do what she likes where Tula's concerned.

Our attitude from the get-go was that we wanted Tula to join the family and Riga was expected to straighten up and fly right, so to speak.

[jade]

We wanted to give an update on our situation.

I must first comment however on our appreciation for this forum and can't express how valuable this has been helping us raise Jade correctly and now Marley after joining the family!!

AngelBunny your female sounds like Jade - a spayed, Miss Number 1. We have taken a similar attitude about our desire to have Marley be part of our family and not accept her bullying and we're already making progress!

Titan, your rendition is frightfully close to the way things have worked out. It has now been two days since we've had Marley (11 week old male) and Jade seems to have accepted him.

The breakthrough for us was the walk yesterday. Jade went first as usual and Marley seemed determined to keep her pace (this was funny to watch). Jade would turn around and make sure he was still coming every few steps. When we stopped they would both sit beside each other with that kick stand leg action. Jade would bump Marley and stand over him to remind him who's boss - we are trying to keep this at a minimum. She also constantly mouths (not bites) his ears and smells his genitals - making sure he's still male every few minutes...

At one point a Yellow Lab walked by and barked at Jade. She did her usual jump around and whine as she does with any other dog. The Lab then walked by Marley and growled. Jade almost ripped her harness apart trying to deter this. Although we'd like to break her dog aggression, we were pleased she has adopted a protective instinct for the new baby.

We're still working and have lots left to do, but I never dreamed we'd make this much progress so fast!! Thanks for all of the great suggestions!!