Nerve strength & thresholds

[Mick Trainer]

There has been much written recently about the dogs nerves and how this related to their behavior. I write this post to help clear some of this up, in the hope that it may be of help to those with behavioral problems, and for those with young dogs or those purchasing a dog in the future so as they may avoid such problems.

I feel at this point that I must define a few words so that there is no confusion as to their meaning.

Drive: "describes part of an inherited trait which serves to sustain life and species". It is where the dog is exibiting behavior where it has a sole focus tto achieve a desired goal.

Thresehold: The point where a dog is said to go in drive or where a dog goes from one drive to another.

Defencive Drive: This is where the dog is defending life, teritory, food, pack etc. The dog will show aggression towards the an object with the sole purpose of putting that object into avoidance. The trigger stimulas for a dog going into defencive drive is threat. Defencive behaviors can include True aggression, Staring, a widening of the stance, Hair up on the back/nech area.

Avoidance: Avoidance is where the dog wishes to avoid the confrontation. The most common example of this is running away from the object.(It may not always be as clear as this).

When trainers talk about a dogs nerve strenght they are talking about the dogs ability to deal with and to recover from stress. Nerve strenghts are normally devided up into three main catagorise. Weak, mid strenght and strong.

A dog that is said to be of low or weak nerve strenght is a dog that basically nervous in it's temperament. This dog will spook very easily and may take much time to recover. This dog will go into it's defencive drive with very low levels of stimulation and will also go in to avoidance bahavior not long after. Common examples of these dogs are dogs that show large amounts of aggression towards people when these people have shown no real threat to either dog or handler. Dogs that work the gate or bark at even the slightest of noices without being trained to do so are doing this as they are nevous of what that noice may be.

Although to the uneducated these dogs may seem to be a good guard dog (most people that own this sort of dog believe thay have tiger by the tail)the truth is that with any real pressure these dogs will go into avoidance bahavior and back off. These dogs are also very likely to bite the wrong person and will often bite out of self defence (Fear biter).

Weak Nerve or low threshold dogs can be and should be helped by professional trainers. These dogs confidence must be lifted up so as they are not spooked into defencive aggression at such a low level.

Mid Strenght nerved, dogs are those that make up the majority of dogs in the community. These dogs can be spooked and frightened but it is at level that is not seen almost every day as the weak nerved dogs are. These dogs will show signs of stress but will recover from it quite quickly. They will bark and alarm the pack (owner) to strange goings on but will not show full blown aggression (hair up, teeth out etc) until truly threatened. These dogs will happily greet new people and objects without fear but with the right training will defend their owner against real and direct threats. Without the direct threat no aggression will be shown.

These dogs make up the group of dogs that will suit the average family house hold, that want a friendly happy dog that is safe with strangers and their children but will make a fine watch dog.

Strong Nerve: A dog is said to be of high nerve strenght or a high threshold dog when the level of stimulas needed for this dog to instigate it's defencive drive is at such a high level that it is rarely seen. These dog posses true self confidence and feel that there is very little in this world that is of true threat to them. These dogs rarely if ever exibit defencive aggression as there is very little that is seen as a real threat (the stimulas for defence).

These dogs in the right hands can make excellent pets, but can in the wrong produce very dominant/rank dogs that will happily challenge the owner. This is due to there high levels of confidence and thus the fact that they will back themselves in when confronted. These dogs can make the best police service or riot dogs. These dogs often posses Active Aggression where they see every challenge in their lives as a direct challenge to their athourity. With their true confidence they are unlikely to back down.

Nerve strenght can be greatly affected by many outside influences. The most important being upbringing and in particular early socialisation. A dog that has had a hard or abused upbrining or a lack of socialisation will generally have a lower nerve threshold then when it was born. The opposite is also true.

Age is another aspect that can greatly affect nerve strenght. It is widely believed that a dog will not be of full nerve strenght until a minimum of 18 months and as late as 3 years of age.

I can hear people saying "How does this relate to me?" Simply take a look at your dog if you feel that it reacts to threat to easily then seek professional help and try to boost the dogs confidence. A dog that reacts like this is a danger to all it meets and when pushed is unlikely to protect it's owner.

If you are buying a new dog then think about what you want the dog for. If you are after a family pet then pick a dog with good mid range nerve threshold (make sure the parants have the same) as this will help to ensure that the dog is not a fear biter. If you are after a dog for your personal protection then get a mid to high nerve dog as this will help for later work. Remember the sooner the dog goes into it's defencive drive the earlier it will show avoidance. If you expect the dog to protect you it must be able to access a clear and present danger and have the confidence to combat it.

What's happening in the breed now? Unfortunately in recent times the nerve strenght of the Rottweiler has been reduced considerably. This is due to many factors such as poor breeding by money hungry breeders, a reduction in the number of working dogs, breeders breeding for titles without considering the temperament of the dogs, I could go on and on and on. This breed was originally breed to be a working dog and until recent times was extencively bred for their working abilities. Now however it is becoming ever more difficult to find dogs that could do personal protection or police service work. Some would say "So what. I don't want that any way". The reason these dogs cannot do this type of work is due to their confidence being wained. As their confidence goes the incidence of fear biting will continue to increase. I personally fell in love with this breed due to the incredible soundness, loyalty and stability of their temperament. It is this soundness etc that is being lost as the working ability deminishes. So it does not matter weather you want a police service dog or a couch potatoe, if you want a sound, carm temperament then confidence is a must.

I hope this helps in some way to clear up some misconceptions about nerve strenght. If it leaves you with any questions please feel free to remail or mail me directly.

Mick.

[CarolineS]

Mick,

So when is your book coming out? http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif Very interesting post, seems I've been doing my dog a disservice. I've always called her a "woos" (slang for a bit of a baby). Reading your post, you've described her to a "T" in the mid-strength nerve range of behavior.

Sometimes people read so much about what the temperament of a Rottie is supposed to be like that that they feel their dog is less a Rottie if it doesn't fall into the strong-nerve category. I think you've pointed out quite well that these dogs (few and far between as they are) are not for the average pet owner.

I have always said, (and taken some heat for it here http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif), that if you've had experience with other large breeds as family pets, that you shouldn't have any trouble with a well-bred Rottie with a stable temperament. You have just clarified about temperament what I was assuming in my statement, but never articulated.

[Rott4me]

Thanks Mick for the well written post. I was waiting for this one and understand much more now why my dog hasn't shown much agression. She definetly falls into the mid-strength category.

My only question is - what is considered a direct threat? Won't that vary from dog to dog or situation to situation? Is it always a physical threat or is it determined by a dog's "sixth" sense? Can you elaborate a little more on what direct might mean?

For instance on our walks my dog (19 month old female) struts very confidently, checking everything out and if she sees let's say a group of teenagers hanging on a corner she will stop and observe them for minutes sometimes, seemingly assessing their intent and behavior, then she will pass on by, still watching but without any agressive display, no growl, no bark, no bristle of fur. However, the other night two people (a man and a woman) were arguing (the man was threatening to hit the woman) in their car parked along our walking route and she stopped again in erect Rottie stance and observed for many minutes, then she strongly insisted on lead that I let her go over to the car, jumped up on the side, stuck her head in the window and let out on big deep, "Woof!" Then she continued on our walk, looking back occasionally until we were out of sight of the car. Needless to say she startled the two people arguing and they seemed to stop at least momentarily. This was not a "direct threat" in my opinion but she may have felt that it was. I certainly was very tense and nervous when I saw the man about to hit the woman and I'm sure that she must have felt my reaction. Please let me know your thoughts if possible.

Thanks again for the great post.

Rott4me

[German Vanegas]

Excellent post Mick!!... as usual http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

I like to add a couple of things to Mick's fine topic.

Prey drive: is that primitive instinct to "chase, catch, and bite the prey, then shake it hard to kill it, and then eat it". In the wild, the wolf has to hunt to survive, and that it's the best example of prey drive. Domesticated dogs show prey drive by chasing moving objects, and by that means: moving objects regardless! (people running, children running, bicycles, motorcycles, cars, etc). Since we feed our dogs, they don't see the need to actually hunt, but still most dogs naturally love to go after moving objects. Properly channelized, this prey drive can be used for obedience training, retrieving training, and protection training. The problem with prey drive is the possibility of a tragedy, whether be a small child running around "wildly" taken by the dog as "prey", or going after say a motorcycle and getting run over by it. So extensive socialization goes along with good obedience training... and play to throw and chase that ball a lot with your dog! http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

Guard drive: is that alert-watchful dog that alarms its pack about a very unusual or threatening situation, and the dog is willing to defend its "ground" (territory). Although this drive is not to be confused with the sharp dog that reacts to little stimuli out of fear... even though this sharp dog puts on a display of aggression that, to the eyes of the uneducated, looks like the "dog is ready to kill someone"... when in fact, due to its weak nerves, is getting ready to flee! However, a desired a level of sharpness in the dog is necessary for personal, family, and home protection... but not to the point, as Mick pointed out, that the dog barks at mostly anything!

Fight drive: is that strong commitment to engage in the fight to confront the treat, all the way, regardless!... this is different from defense drive, which is to defend and protect. However, not only this fight is not common, but a dog with it is simply NOT for the inexperienced. A dog with fight drive is an excellent candidate for police patrol, military service, prison guarding, or in the hands of an expert in protection training (and a very responsible individual too).

As Mick stated, a lot of people confuses sharpness with guarding. A dog that barks, growls and puts in an aggression "show" do so in most cases out of fearful behavior or spookiness. This dog's with low nerve threshold will be push into avoidance with little pressure, even though initially displays toughness... hoping to discourage the threat, but if it doesn't work this weak nerved dog will flee!

Most people say: "My dog is not trained but I know that my good dog would protect me if I am in danger". Sorry, more than likely the dog will leave you alone to deal with the threat yourself. It's a rude awakening when it happens! Some people get a Rottweiler trusting their lives in the dog's "natural" abilities to protect, wrongly believing that the dog has a "natural protective instinct". It's not true. Few dogs have that courage and hardness to protect without any protection and guard training at all.

For a dog to be protection capable, it has to have the right genetic make-up, then a stable temperament with solid nerves, plus high drives and a strong willingness to please its master... so with the proper upbringing, in the right environment, and with professional training, the end-product is a truly personal protection and security dog that you can actually TRUST! Many myths and misconceptions surrounding this issue has ruined the Rottweiler.

As Mick correctly brought it up, Rottweilers are suffering from temperament problems and weak nerves, due to over breeding by inexperienced and unethical people. Thus removing the Rottweiler from what originally was intended to be: A WORKING DOG... AND TRUE WORKING DOGS ARE BECOMING HARD TO FIND NOWADAYS. This is the sad result of improper breeding practices and wrongly rearing those dogs... who's to blame? not the dog, but us! http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/frown.gif

Thank you!

[AngelBunny]

Mick:

Highly informative. Thank you for sharing this with us.

I too am saddened by the dilution of the stable, confident Rottie temperment by the breeding of inferior dogs and the emphasis on beauty titles to the exclusion of working titles.

Our two girls clearly exhibit the differences you discussed. Our rescue dog at 2 yrs is a silly goose of low nerve who startles easily. Drop a pot in the kitchen & Tula will jump to the sky. She barks at the drop of a hat at night--she can't get used to the fact that alot of deer run thru our yard. Our older dog (7 yrs), Riga, acquired from a breeder who puts working titles on her dogs, is right in the middle.

[Nancy Estes]

"Nerve strenght can be greatly affected by many outside influences." As an example of this, I had a male Rottie that had tremendous self-confidence, fight drive, prey drive, strong nerves, in other words a really good working prospect (might mention that he was ugly as sin http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif). At 5-1/2 months he broke a rear leg - leaping up for the food bowl he came down crooked on the concrete lip of the kennel building. He screamed, stuck his leg out and proceded to eat his dinner . . . He had to have surgery on the leg, pins, wires, etc. Tore stitches out & had to have staples put in - didn't bother him at all having the staples put in or taken out. Could also be x-rayed without sedation. A few months after the broken leg was healed, he developed a bone infection in a front leg. The end result of surgery, months of antibiotics, etc., he was no longer the same dog - his "nerve" had been damaged due to the months of pain he had to endure.

Nancy

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von Dorow Rottweilers
doggo1@apex2000.net

[Helen B.]

Excellent post!

Whenever anybody asks me about my dogs personality, I alway say I have one on each end of the spectrum.

My male, Bru (5Yys old), could fall into the Mid Strength nerve but might even be a Strong nerve. He is very confident and that has come with age. On the other end is my female, Faust (3 in Dec.). She is a Weak nerve/high prey drive combo and this would explain the problems I am having with her training. She is very nervous, figidee(spelling)and I insist she has A.D.D. sindrone. At the rate we're going she will be a senior citizen by the time she get her CD, but we will keep working at it.

Again, excellent post and thanks for taking the time.

[Mick Trainer]

Thanks one and all for the your lovely responces. From the responces I got I can see they came from people that know what they are talking about. Once again on the whole, THANKS.

Rott4me: What I was trying to convey with the term "direct threat" was just to show the difference between a weak nerved and a mid strength nerved dog and was just pointing out that a mid strength dog will not react just because a person walks by etc. It was a term I used for lack of a better one.

Your dog sounds from what you have said as a good mid strenght dog. She feels slight approhencion from the teenagers and slightly higher from the man and woman but had the nerve strenght to come through it. No it is not a direct threat but it is a threat that has concerned her. As you said the tension you felt may also added to this.

She sounds like a very nice temperamented dog. A dog from my own heart. Hope the above answers your question, if not remail.

German. Great responce. When I was writing the post I was in two minds about how far to take it especially in terms of definitions. When I saw the length of the post I thought I better cut them out. Your definitions could have been mine. They are spot on.

Your statement about a non trained dog protecting an owner is absolutley correct. Also never a truer word has been spoken when you say who is to blame for the dogs reduction in nerve strength "not the dog, but us"!

On a side note how can I include the icons on my posts?

Rottiholt: Please feel free to include my Email address in your puppy packs, more than happy to help anytime!

Nancy: Sorry to hear about your boy. He sounded like he would have made an excellent working prospect. Always sad to hear stories like this

Once again thank you one and all. It is great to know there are others out there wanting the solid temperamented dogs back.

Mick