puppy biting!!!

[zeb]

please help!! we have an 8 week old rottweiler(male). we just got him two weeks ago. ive been trying to stop him from biting and mouthing but it seems when i correct him he gets very vicious( showing his teeth, snarling,growing lunging at me )i want to beleive that this is puppy biting (a phase??)but he is actually breaking the skin when he bites. ive tried no!!swat on the nose... it doesnt work. im now trying a new technique where i am growling at him when he trys to bite to try to show him that im the leader of the pack. i read this technique in a book so i dont know if its a good idea with rottweilers. if anyone could give me some tips i would appreciate it very much.this is my first rottweiler. i really want to play with my puppy but its painfull! help!

[bearkat]

I would try clamping his mouth shut as you tell him in a very loud voice "NO BITE!!" Gently, but firmly, wrap your hand around his muzzle, say "NO BITE!!", then put him in a down position. Praise him highly, give him a treat, and the next time he goes after you, do it again. Rotties are very stubborn, and set in their ways! They really want to please you, but because they are set in their ways, you have to guide them along.

Don't, under any circumstances, hit your puppy! Let him know what is acceptable, and what is not. A swat on the nose is comparible(sic) to you getting backhanded across the face... all that does is make your puppy wonder what happened to deserve that treatment, and not know what the desired behavior is.

There have been some posts here on books that are recommended, and you should look at those. There are lots of other people on this forum that know more than I, and if you don't want to buy books and research this problem, try doing a search on this forum for behavior problems.

[zeb]

thank you for responding... actually i stopped the swatting on the nose because i did read that any kind of hitting(even in a correcting kind of way ) is considered puppy abuse and that this only makes your dog not trust you. ive been reading this book and it says to growl at the dog when he does anything that is unacceptable(biting,mouthing,during housebreaking,ect...) it also says that if the puppy does not respect your growl to growl louder and snap at the dog . if this does not work try shaking the scruff while growling and roll the dog on his back. lastly as a last alternative, to actually bite the dog on the muzzle if he will not respect your growl and leadership. the author of the book says this is what the mother dog would do so it will be effective. would you or anyone recommend this type of disipline for a rottie? do you think that the dog may think im playing rough with him and thats why he circles back and bites after i correct him? i really need to get a handle on this and in the most loving and effective way. thanks for any and all replys!!

[German Vanegas]

To me, without enough background information and unable to see your puppy, it seems like your pup inherited a poor temperament behavioral problem (based on what you described).

You have to start NOW to correct that situation, before it gets worse, which it will. Grab him by the top of neck and shake it really hard, until it stops such unacceptable behavior, while you yell out: "NOOO!!!". That's the first command your dog needs to learn: ther serious meaning of the word NO!. Buy a good Rottweiler book and work through it.

[bearkat]

As usual, German's advice is very solid. My Clyde decided when he was about 3 months old that he didn't want me near his rawhide bone.. I bent down, said "Out!", and he growled, bared his teeth and lunged at me. I promptly grabbed him by the scruff of the neck, shook him very firmly, and yelled "NO!! BAD DOG!!". I then took the bone away, and after a few minutes, gave it back to him. I had to do this twice... he finally gave up the bone willingly on the third try, and we have not had a problem since. Some Rotties, like German stated, come to you with a poor temperment due to poor breeding, but sometimes, the puppy may be "testing the waters" to see what he can get away with. This behavior should never be condoned!! Start early, be consistent, and with luck, you may end up with a dog you and your family can live with!

[German Vanegas]

Well, poor temperament, from bad breeding, may developed into shyness (fearful aggressive behavior), or worse, downright viciousness (overly aggressive behavior), or even other type of behavioral problems.

However, dominant behavior (such as "guarding" a toy) doesn't come from bad breeding, but it is a type of caractheristic "personality". The dog wants to the be the leader of the pack, and it is the owner's duty to show him who really the boss is (it doesn't mean to beat-up the dog!This is the worst way to correct a dog, particularly in Rotties, regularly induces MORE aggression than anything else)).

Dominance can be relatively easily corrected, with the appropiate training methods, assuming the alpha leadership. But poor temperament inherited behavior is quite challenging to correct, if at all possible. So it all depends how bad the level of aggression on your puppy is.

I can assure you, a puppy should be all-around happy and nice to humans. Early age aggression displays can degenerated in serious worrisome adulthod problems.

A dog's defense drive or protective instinct start to show at different ages, depending upon the dog's lineage among other factors, but normally it starts to appear around 8 months of age or so (not a an absolute), when it barks at strangers when someone comes into its territory. At around 12 months SOME dogs may display defense drive (not a rule either). And a dog may be ready to do real protection work (that is if, it comes with the right genes, temperament, and drives) around 18 to 24 months old, or even older. This should give you a GENERAL idea. This issue is a lot more complex.

[Nancy Estes]

First of all - you stated that your puppy is 8 weeks old & you got him 2 weeks before that. I think the problem lies in his age more than anything else. You got him at 6 weeks of age - he didn't receive all the socialization/interaction time he needed with his dam and his littermates. He is reacting to you the same way he would to his littermates. This does not mean that you should not corect him but it also does not mean that he has a defective temperament. You should definitely "educate" him in the ways of proper behavior http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif but don't assume at this early age that he has a problem temperament. Maybe he should be referred to as "educationally challenged" http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/wink.gif.

Nancy

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von Dorow Rottweilers
doggo@hotbot.com

[German Vanegas]

Nancy,
Temperament is inherited not taught, as you know. I understand your point about early separation from the pup's litter, which it's a mistake discussed at lenght previously on other postings (most of the times it makes the puppy nervous). However, the described GROWLING AND SNAPING at such early age, it doesn't seem to me like "educationally challenged". I personally stick to my theory of poor inherited temperament, rather than the puppy did not inter-act and learn enough with its mother and littermates. An early aggressive behavior is a warning sign that cannot be taken lightly, or it will become a "nightmare".

[This message has been edited by German Vanegas (edited May 18, 1999).]

[zeb]

first of all i cant thank you all enough for responding. its a flicker of hope for me . http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif maybe vicious is the wrong word to describe but the puppy does repeatedly lunge at my hands ,legs, arms stomach... whatever is there. He is not like this all the time . its almost as if he gets too worked up(although im not doing anything to work him up except tell him no. )ive been trying to hold his mouth shut and say nooo!! this rarely works. perhaps he is missing his littermates and mom. when i lay on the ground with him he crawls all over me and hes civil up until he grabs my hand once. then it starts all over( i say no and correct him... he starts biting harder and over and over.) how many times should i say no and hold his mouth ? this does not seem to be working http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/frown.gif is there a time out i should give him by putting him in his crate until he settles down?? i dont want to use his crate to punish him as he likes it and frequentley will go inside and take naps on his own but if it helps i will try anything!!i hope this post is readable my typing skills are not so good http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif thank you again for your advice!!!! one more thing... do you think that maybe my voice isnt intimidating enough for him to respect my noo!'s?? (me being female) that may be a stupid question but im trying to think of any thing it may be other than beleiving he is just not going to work out in my family.im trying to find a private trainer to help me until he is old enough for obediance classes but so far under four months is "too young" ?????? thanks in advance zeb http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/smile.gif

[Codys ma]

Zeb,

Do you have a baby gate? When he bites and you shake his scruff and tell him no and he continues to bite, try telling him TIME OUT and placing him behind a baby gate so he can't get to you. That way he will not feel as if his crate is a punishment but he will know that that behavior stops his play time. After he quiets down you can let him out, but if it starts again separate him from you again. Also, have you tried yelling OUCH when he bites? A lot of times puppies will bite harder than they realize because our skin is a lot more tender than theirs. If you make them realize you are hurt, they will soften up a little bit.

When Cody was a puppy he got "vicious" in play too. He simply just got too worked up and a shake on the scruff, a firm NO and a time out did the trick. I'd like to add that before someone told me what to do with him I thought he had a bad temperament. Turns out I wasn't discouraging his behavior but I was encouraging it by pushing him away when he bit which he thought was play. I hope this is the case with your puppy!!

Good luck!!

Kim

[This message has been edited by Codys ma (edited May 18, 1999).]

[hks]

Your suggestions are great! I taught my rott (by accident) that OUCH means a really bad NO, mom is in pain, and that she is in trouble. Amazing how smart they are!

[German Vanegas]

Kim's opinions are quite valid, as well as good sound advise.

Orville, my personal experience is that, more often than not, a growling-snapping puppy grows-up to developed some kind of aggressive behavioral problem. Of course, this it's not a rule... besides there are always exceptions to it. '

It is hard to form an opinion, as usual, without actually seeing the pup. In any case, a strong leadership has to be established from the very beginning, and the appropiate puppy training and corrections methods have to be worked and enforced every day. Best wishes!

[Orville Story]

German & Nancy,
Zeb gives us a picture of a "vicious" puppy. Well, this may or may not be true. It may just normal puppy behavior. The problem is we can not see the behavior, only have it discribed. I had the same thoughts as Nancy, but also the same as German. I can see two different puppies discribed the same way. I think it is good that Zeb is given both possibilities to explore.