Aggressive

[Christine]

2 months ago, I got a rescue male rottie. He was very underweight ( 9 months old and only 50 lbs). But from I've been able to find out he hasn't been abused, just neglected. I had him neutered, gave him some TLC and attention, and he is now a 80 lb. 11 month old. He is wonderful in temperament: accepting of all kinds of people and children, accepting of other dogs, and easy to train. I have a 1 year old daughter whom he lets crawl over him and play ball. He has never shown any aggression. I also have been able to find out about his parents and they have no aggressive tendencies. However, the problem comes with my neighbor's son. When he is out in their yard, my rottie sees him and starts lunging at the fence, barking in a threatening manner. This child is 1 1/2 years old. My other neighbor has young male children, too, but my rottie doesn't act anything but friendly. The only thing I can see this toddler doing differently is he sometimes stares at my rottie. Other than that, I see behavior that is no different than my own daughter's. For correction, I've tried grabbing him by the collar and jerking him back with a booming "No!". Then I make him sit, which he will, and I praise for that. I try to give him something positive to do (the "sit" command, then chase balls). But after awhile he goes back to the previous behavior. He was never trained, so I have started training him. Aside from never letting him outside to play or do his business, is there any other advice? Why is he doing this to just this one child? Also, does this mean he may have other aggressive tendencies that are "hidden"? Or could this be an isolated incidence? Thanks for any opinions.

[dfranks1]

Christine, That's a tough one! Sounds like you have done alot of right things with this pup. Is there any way possible that this child may had done something to your dog when no one was looking? No offense to any one, but is this child normal? Has your pup had any meetings or contact with this male child other than through the fence in the yard? Could it be fence aggression? I can definetly recommend getting him into a group training class with a good trainer/instructor. One that doesn't have a macho attitude. You need to get a handle on this behavior ASAP, as you already know. or

[Christine]

As to whether this child is normal is subjective (after all my daughter is only 1 year and is able to beat up on him! ha ha) but otherwise I guess you could say he is. And, yes, the only time my pup has seen this child is through a fence. But I do not think it is fence aggression because he sees other young male children through the fence...no problems. I do not know if he might have done something to my rottie with no one looking, however I have not left him unsupervised very much because he is new to our household. I've wanted every chance I can get to observe his personality. I've talked to the neighbor today and thought maybe he should meet her son (not through a fence) but we are not sure how to go about doing it (especially if my rottie carries his feelings for this boy beyond the back yard) and if it would help a great deal. By the way, next Sunday he will be starting group training with a local Rottweiler club here.

[Orville Story]

Is your dog's bark a deep hard bark, or is his bark somewhat high with a yeppy type of sound? Is his hackles up? Describe his mouth and ears when he is watching the boy. Is the mouth open and relaxed, Are the ears alert, pinned back, or are they just relaxed and normal. Is he bouncing around while barking or does he looked like a compressed spring? Please give as much details as possible.

[Christine]

His bark is deep, but his hackles are not raised. His mouth is open but not relaxed. He is not baring teeth like he wants to take a chunk of the child. His ears are sorta pinned back. They are not relaxed and normal. And he does look like a compressed spring when he is barking. If the boy moves down the fence, he will bounce and bark down the fence to where the boy is and then return to that compressed spring posture. And he won't stop unless the boy goes inside his house, I grab his collar (he stops instantly the moment I grab onto his collar), or, of course, we go into our house.

When I watch him, I get the feeling that he is not out to bite the boy but like he is trying to tell him to back off...don't get near my fence. I do not feel at all threatened going to grab his collar and correct him. When I make him sit in front of the boy, he does it in a relxed manner.

[Orville Story]

Understand that I am quessing baised on your discriptions. I will give you my thoughts, but they could be way off base. Sounds like your dog is in prey drive and not fighting drive. He is not looking at the boy as a threat as you read it, but as a moving object that excites him. The more he sees this boy playing the more drive this builds up in the dog. Your dog's desire is to catch this moving object. If the boy gets still the dog will bark to get him moving again. This is as dangerous as an aggressive dog and should be avoided. How? A privacy fence to where the dog can not see the boy would greatly help. I would avoid the situation as much as possible. I would be aware that this dog may have drives that would cause him to run after and catch small children. And if the children out of fear fight the dog, well that is not a pretty picture. If your dog loves to play and chase after balls then his prey drive may be very high. This is where most owners make bad judgements concerning their rotties. The rottie high in prey is usually a playfull and sweet dog, but to think because he is this way, that he is not dangerous is wrong. This dog does not attack because he wants to fight, but because it is his nature to catch small moving things.

[German Vanegas]

I also like to add that, there is a guard drive too, bred-in and inherited by some fine Rotties.

Again, without seeing your pup, it does seem like your dog is very alert, watchful, and protective of its territory. Great! You have a watchdog on duty!... you described a pup that seems to be well-socialized and well-behaived around people and children... but inside his property he is more aware of its boundaries, and alerts to the presence of living things (including animals), when they are too close to the fence... I like that.

Second guessing, based on all you said in your posting, I believe you have a nice Rottie with watchdog abilities... I don't think is a case of an overly aggressive dog. Keep us informed... Thanks!

[Christine]

Is it prey drive with only this one child? Like I said on the other side of me are 2 little boys who play and he doesn't get excited (only when their Rottie is out, too, and they are playing with her). I thought it was just weird that he only acts this way with this one child. So should I let them meet under control circumstances (like him kenneled)?
As for my daughter, I do not EVER let them be together unsupervised. And everyday I am trying to teach her how to treat a dog so that she'll grow up knowing what to do and not to do around dogs. She pretty much leaves him alone and when she does bother him, I give him a treat for behaving well around her. Always trying to accent the positive... that good things happen around her. I am home all day and try to use their interactions as a chance for training for him ("sit" and "platz") and for her ("don't hit" and "pet nice").

[German Vanegas]

Prey drive is directly related to that primitive wild-dog instinct to hunt and chase its prey... prey drive is not a form of aggression, although dogs high in prey drive, can be trained to bite the protected sleeved arm of a training helper (like in dog sports). This doesn't mean the dog has defense drive or fighting drive, these two are separate drives in itself too.

A domesticated dog with prey drive, has an intense desire to "chase, grab, and shake" moving objects (adults and children running, a moving car, or a motorcycle, or a bicycle, or a ball, and so forth)... It does look frightening to many, because it is confused with "attacking" the object, when in fact the dog has not an aggressive motivation at all in that mode, but basicallly a "survival" one. A dog high in prey drive will chase moving objects, is that simple.

All of us, involved in raising and training working dogs, want that specific drive on our dogs (aside from other drives). In other words, prey drive is good, not bad at all. You can always channelized the dog's prey drive in many ways, like for instance: playing with a ball alot almost everyday.

Your case in particular is kind of confusing. What you described don't seem to be prey drive motivated to me. You said he is good around children, which it's a must! So I don't think your dog has an out of control aggressive "outburst" with just this one kid... Tell me, have you seen your dog's reaction when someone else (adult, child, animal) gets close to the fence?...
Thanks!

[Christine]

It is confusing. He does not act this way with any other child (there are alot of children in the neighborhood) who comes up to the fence or plays near the fence. He does not do this with adults. As with other animals, only the occasional stray that may run near the yard, he will get excited and bark alot. (We have a very active neighborhood to say the least.)
I just got back from a "backyard conference"
with both my neighbors. The mom did admit that her toddler has came up to the fence and shook it before on several occassions. She says he does stare into Dakota's eyes as he does this. My other neighbor said her sons has shook my fence, too, but it has only been once or twice. I've never seen her kids stare outright at Dakota. She doesn't allow them to that with their own Rottie. So could it be the combination of staring and fence rattling? I requested that she keeps her child away from my fence. Also, he is well socialized with children. The breeder has 6 children and kept the pups in the house with the family. Dakota was with them up until he reached about 3 months.

[German Vanegas]

More than prey drive "at work", it seems to me like your dog has a "guardy" drive... well directed such drive can work to your advantage to make it a watchdog. If the neighbor's kid rattles the fence, it's normal your dog gets excited with the reaction you have already described... it's always difficult to evaluate this situations without actually been there...

[SaddenedRottLover]

Christine, Forgive me if I sound harsh but I must speak from my heart..Good luck with your new pup..but as a mother of now 2 grown children and a person that loves dogs..do not put that responsibility on your new dog..allowing your 1 year old to be on the floor with your dog is not using good sense..what are you trying to prove? That the Rottwiler is a good dog? If something happens even the most small incident then it becomes the dogs fault..Use good sense you are not doing this..
Cindy

[Mary Lou]

My rottie does the same. Is your yard fenced in? I guess some dogs tend to be very territorial when they are in the yard. We have kids next door that like to tease him. They pull on the fence and throw rocks at him while he's minding his own business and sleeping on the front lawn. One kid threw a beer bottle at hime once. He's never ran after them though so the kids have no reason to torment him. It may be that your dog is thinking "get back, you're too close", who knows...

[Christine]

If a kid threw a beer bottle at my dog, I'd be throwing a beer bottle back!!!! I would be so irate! I have narrowed it down to a stare/fence shaking thing. Other kids stand next to the fence, yet he's well behaved. They know not to stare and shake the fence, too, though. I let him greet that toddler up close (under control) today without a fence between them, and he was a complete angel!