Growls at me

[calebmyboy]

I have a 4 year old rott, I have had him since he was 5 weeks old, we have a wonderful bond, however he growls at me & sometimes he snarls his lip & looks quite vicious, & once in a while he will kind of make a yip, like he wants to snap at me (but does not)He basically has a great temperament, he is very loving & loves people, but an excellent protector. He does this mostly when he is laying down & if I even come in the room & look at him, & other times when I ask him to give me a kiss (which he does) with a curled lip. I love to hug & kiss him & most of the time he loves it also, but other times he will growl & curl his lip. He is not neutered, would this make a difference in his behavior? he has never actually bit me, but I honestly have to say that as much as I love him, & as bonded as we are, that I do not trust him 100%, sometimes he gets a look in his eyes that does scare me, some people have said that he is just talking when he does this, do you honestly think he would ever hurt me? I would never get rid of him, he is like a kid to me.

He will not allow anyone to get near me (even my husband) he will get between us & occasionally will come running & jump on my husband. We always tie him up in the house when we have company because he jumps on them & does not like anyone waving their hands when they talk. He acts like he would bite them if they start using hands when they talk. but otherwise he loves people almost to death. I would appreciate any advice on this.


[This message has been edited by Von (edited December 22, 1999).]

[3rottys]

I also have a five year old rotty that is not neutered who growls and snarls...but he has never nipped or even acted like he would. Sometimes people mistake his growling as serious, but I know when he is playing and when he isn't. You know your dog better than anyone and if you don't trust him, you have a problem. Have you considered calling a reputable trainer who is familiar with rotty behavior? Maybe, and I'm no expert by far, he needs continual reinforced training to realize you AND YOUR HUSBAND are the top dogs and his aggressive behavior (as well as jumping) will not be tolerated.

[calebmyboy]

I wish I was able to find a trainer in my area, but where I live (very isolated)there are two trainers, one makes you leave the animal there for a month, & the other gives group lessons at the vets office, the problem with this is that Caleb is VERY agressive toward other animals, I personally cannot hold him when he sees another animal,
are their any good training books out, that a person could read & relate to, I see them advertised on the internet, but I hate to spend $30 for a book that I may not be able to use. I think part of the problem is that we do not inforce the alpha dog in ourselves & he tries us occasionally to see how far we will let him go

[Killfactor]

You absolutely need to be Alpha, It sounds to me he is challenging you, and seeing how far he can go, if you continue to allow this, he very well may take it a step further, There are books, but I suggest using the trainer, you can overcome aggression towards other animals if you work at it, but I would get him to understand your Alpha status prior to that. Please see a trainer, meantime here are some rules to lay down til then:

1.) make him sit for everything, petting, food, treats, going in and out of the doorways of your house ect ect.

2.) pick several rooms of the house he is not allowed to enter, get child gates if needed.

3.) do not allow him on furniture including beds.

4.) Do not allow him to enter or exit doors before you(see rule 1)

5.) if you free feed him stop and set meal times, and always after you have eaten(Alpha's eat first).

6.) no tug of war games til he knows whos Alpha.

There is a post by German, but I cannot remember what the subject was, so anyone who can remember please reply.

[CarolineS]

calebmyboy,

I've been coming back to your post all day long because I didn't know whether to answer you or not. I'm not experienced enough to solve your problem, but I do know enough to realize you have a very serious problem with your dog.

From what you describe, I'd say the chances are good this dog may well bite someone one day. It may well be you. There are a number of factors that have made your dog this way and I really doubt it is something you can fix by buying a book.

Your pup was taken from his mother and littermates too young. This is part of your problem. A dog separated at this age tends to have problems with bite inhibition, is usually aggressive to other dogs, develops unhealthy attachments to its owner and is generally more difficult to train.

Adding to this problem, is the fact that the dog has not been adequately obedience trained and does not sound like he was socialized enough as a pup. He is definitely of the opinion that he is the boss. His growling at you when you "just look at him" is proof of that. In doggie language, he thinks you are challenging him when you do that and he is responding to your challenge.

In your case, since you don't have the experience to handle an intact male, neutering will probably be of some help. Some of his behaviors are ingrained now though and neutering won't be a panacea for your problems. A lot of training and behavioral adjustment needs to be done. Neither of the trainers you mentioned sound like they'd be suitable for the problems you are encountering.

As I read over what I've just typed, I wondered if I'd been unduly harsh in my answer. I decided to leave it as such because I want you to realize the seriousness of your problem. There are a couple of very experienced trainers on this board, who do a lot of work with dogs with problems such as yours. Hopefully one of them will come across your post and offer some solutions. Maybe they will be able to refer you to someone in the area who could help.

The post Killfactor was referring to can be found here http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/For...ML/000268.html

[This message has been edited by CarolineS (edited December 22, 1999).]

[Killfactor]

I suggest an animal behaviorist not just a trainer, once a dog is this age/size its a whole new ball game.

[Orville Story]

Dogs are no different than people they have their bad days too. Never put to much trust into the bond between the two of you. As dogs get older they can become more grumpy. Just like you and your husband may have a knock down drag out fights once a year, this can happen between the pet owner and her master, or the pet and his master which ever it happens to be.

[calebmyboy]

I am awed by the amount of information I have received from all of you. I see several things that will be easy for me to do, such as sitting before, petting, treats & etc. Not letting him exit or enter doors before me, no tug of war & I have just finished reading Germans post, I can do the long down, he will sit & down for me (if he is not distracted or excited). But why do I feel bad about not allowing him into our bedroom, he sleeps on the floor beside the bed & not allowing him by the table when we eat, we always give them ( we have 3 dogs) Caleb is the only Rott, a bite of whatever we are eating, to make him stay away would almost break my heart, He would whine & has a look that he gives (like, why are you doing this to me) & then I feel bad. I know another part of the problem is that I treat him like a kid & hate to discipline him, I wish they could be reasoned with. I will look farther away & see if I can find someone that can help me with him, Thank all of you for so much information

[AngelBunny]

calebmyboy:

You need to put your foot down with your dog. He isn't a child in a fur coat; he's a dog, & from what you say, an arrogant dog, one who thinks his place is above yours. Dogs are hierarchial animals; they're always trying to see where they rank. Your dog is giving clear signs that he thinks his rank is higher than yours. You dog will be happier--and nicer to be around--when he knows that he's not king of the hill.

I'd neuter him. I'm not in favor of intact pets for several reasons, not the least of which spaying & neutering avoids health problems.

This business of not letting people near you (including your husband) must stop. He's to be corrected for such behavior.

I'd make that dog work for everything he's given. He sit stays or down stays for every single meal, for every single treat. If he's napping, on occasion, I'd wake him up & make him do something. When you take him for a ride in the car, he sits by the side of the car, waiting til you tell him him he can get inside. When you get to your destination, he waits in the car til you tell him he can get out. He has to learn that whatever you ask him to do (within reason), he does it, & gives you no guff in the process.

This business of having to tie him up when you have company because he jumps on them is for the birds. That's bad manners. You must correct him for this. Put him in a down stay. I'll bet that when they arrive, he rushes to the door, barking & carrying on.

My 7 yr old is a very bossy bitch who thinks very highly of herself. She, however, will give me the biggest, meatiest bone without any hesitation if I ask because she knows who rules the roost.

Your dog can be reasoned with--the reasoning being, if I ask you, the dog to do something, you, as dog, do it.

[Killfactor]

You can still allow him to sleep by the bed, not in it, but do set up rooms he is not allowed in. If he whines because he cannot be by the table, and you give in, he wins, I wouldn't have a problem having him in a down stay, 10-15ft from the table, but do not give him your food at all, you can have fun with your dog, and spoil him all you want, but it HAS to be on your terms, if he wants attention, walk away, when he stops begging for it, then go give him attention. my dogs sleep in my bedroom, on the floor, they are not allowed in 2 rooms of the house at all, and only in the kitchen when I say its ok, otherwise if they enter the kitchen I tell them out, and enforce it, no matter how many times it takes before they stay out, my female will exit and lay down, my puppy says Oh ok, walks out then back in, so I show him out(over and over) It takes time and patients, but well worth it. the second worst thing is to have a 100+lb dog who thinks he's boss( first is a 100+lb fear bitter).

[Mick Trainer]

Calebmyboy,

As you seem to already have realised your dog has a serious behaviioral problem. He is dominant! This is something that you must rectify or else the dog will over time bite you. Although I agree with other posts that the training may not be perfectly suited to you, it is better than nothing and from what you have written I believe that you need some help.

Although your dogs dominance is a very real problem it is not the only one you have. Your dog not letting your husband etc near you is a very real problem also. Not only does this show that you hhave no real control over your dog but it also shows that the dog is somewhat unstable and has a low nerve threshold. This may be due as Caroline said because of being seperated to young, but what ever the cause you must fix this dog as if it stays the way it is it is a danger to you and the community at large.

Because of the number of behavioral probems that your dog has I am in two minds as to the desexing issue. Desexing him may help with his dominance but it may set his nerve strength backwards. On the whole I think desexing would be worth a try, but only just.

You must learn to set the rules down for your dog. Although you think at the time that he does not like it, it is a far more natural relationship (and safer) for him to have witth you. If you do this correctly you will see your relatioinship improve.

I, like Caroline do not want to come across to strongly but it is imperative that you fix these problems.

I cannot agree at all with Orvilles post. This is not a dog having a bad day and to allow a dog to get away witih thisi sort a behavior under that premise is a very dangerous game to play.

I hope this helps you. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Mick

[calebmyboy]

I have started working with Caleb, we are making him sit before anything, the hardest part so far is making him sit & wait til I tell him he can go out, he is used to making one big jump & getting out before everyone, so it takes us a long time to get out, because as soon as the door is opened he will run out, but in just a few lessons, he is sitting longer, I am going to enforce the down stay at mealtimes. Yes I agree that his jumping on people is unacceptable, but I do not know how to correct this, he is exceptionally obnoxious to people, jumping on them & trying to go between their legs ( I let him do this & scratch his butt)& he loves it and expects everyone else to do this, but they have no idea what is going on. He weighs 128lbs yes a little overweight, but not a lot, we just started running yesterday, but he is a lot of dog to try & make stay off people, he acts like a puppy just bouncing off the walls, believe me I would love to be able to make him stop doing this. I also would like to ask Mick Trainer what does "low nerve threshold" mean, be assured that I am trying to work with Caleb

[This message has been edited by Von (edited March 09, 2000).]

[LisaS]

Tough problem. As far as the jumping, and the problems when company comes, the answer is obedience exercises. Down-Stay - can't jump then can he? Sit-Stay - he can accept petting but cannot get up and wander between legs if on Sit-Stay can he?
Re: Orville's post - another view - I assumed he meant that even though the dog tolerates your smootching with a "curled lip" now ... on a bad day he might snap instead - never assume your dog's tolerance or good intentions- never trust 100 per cent - always look with your eyes open.
the scary parts of your post.."he doesn't like" and "he doesn't allow" - this dog is in charge (or thinks he is - same result) - this needs to change. The advice already given plus working with someone who can actually see you and your dog in your environment may help.

[This message has been edited by LisaS (edited December 23, 1999).]

[CarolineS]

In answer to your question about the definition of "low nerve threshold", you can read an excellent piece defining different nerve strengths, written by Mick, here http://www.rottweiler.net/rottie/For...ML/000456.html

[Orville Story]

LisaS is correct in what I was trying to say.
I agree with all of the post here. My point is that much to often the owners put to much faith in the bond that they think is between them. Your dog might care about you greatly, but if you get out of line he may have to correct you. And the way that dogs correct lesser pack members is to bite. It is their right as the dominate pack member.

[This message has been edited by Orville Story (edited December 23, 1999).]