DOG BITE-PLEASE HELP

[Codys ma]

I guess I should start with a little background info..I live with my sister and her boyfriend, Pat. Cody is now 17 months old and I get my own place in two weeks.

Cody is usually crated while I am at work, but Pat is on vacation this week so he has been out. Pat is quite intimidating to the dogs, yells and occasionally uses what I believe to be excessive force on his own dog. I haven't witnessed Pat using that type of force on Cody (he knows better) but then again, I'm not home all the time when he is.

This morning, Pat found an item from the trash on the floor. He got mad and picked up the item and asked the dogs who did it. Cody ran to the other side of the living room and Pat began to approach him. Cody's hackles went up and he bared his teeth. Pat then yelled at him to kennel and continued toward him. Cody ran under the coffee table, Pat went after him. Cody then ran to the corner of the living room where we have a dog bed, laid on the bed and rolled onto his back. Pat then went to him and went to grab his collar and Cody bit him on the hand. Pat moved his other hand to grab the other side of Cody's collar and Cody bit Pat on that hand as well.

I was not there to witness it, but from that information I believe Cody was scared. At first, he tried to warn him, then he ran. When he had nowhere else to run, he defended himself. Assuming that theory is right, I don't know why Cody was scared in the first place. It could have been that Pat was yelling, but Pat has yelled before and Cody didn't hackle and bear teeth. Was it because I wasn't there? I'm just at a loss here, I would love some input as to why this entire situation happened, what went wrong, and what can be done to ensure this doesn't happen again.

Pat is fine, he went to the emergency room because he had one puncture wound on each hand that was fairly deep. They had to file a report with Animal Control because it was a dogbite and I haven't heard anything from them yet. I am hoping they will allow me to quarantine him either at my home or the veterinarian's office as I don't want him to go to the rabies center. Then again, I don't even know if I will be able to keep Cody at the house for my remaining two weeks.

Any input on this situation would be greatly appreciated. I am very bewildered about this entire incident, I am still in shock. Cody is the most docile creature, and I know everyone has heard it before but I cannot believe that something like this happened with my dog. I've taken so many precautions. I just don't know what to do.

Kim

[Weiler's Mommy]

Pat did the wrong thing. A rottie is very stubbern. When he rolled onto his back this is called a submissive position...this is pretty much saying "You win". When a dog is still approached in a mannor where it feels it is threatened in this position, then it trys to protect it's self. There is a really great magazine out right now in pet stores called Rottweilers, it is published from Dog Fancy. It related to this dog specifically and it's behaviors and actions and what they mean. Also several dog books will discuss a dogs actions and what they mean from submissive behavior to wanting to play to being scared, etc. If I were you I would put your dog into puppy class or obedience class. This way your dog will get socialized to other dogs and people and also they will help you with your dogs temperment. I am going to my second class and have learned A LOT! Rotties are a dog all their own. Everything I have read and been taught in class is so true, and I would have never had know so much. ONE BIG THING...Rotties respond to positive reinfocement not negitive...this is SOOOO true. IF you need any other tip, I have a folder full from our puppy class and this magazine along with books I bought before investing in our rottie.

[Codys ma]

Cody has been through beginner and intermediate obedience level. The next round of classes for us will start in August. He loves people, he loves other dogs.

I am basing my opinion on the flight or fight theory, he tried to remove himself from the situation and when he couldn't he defended himself. I would like any input on how this can be avoided, besides the obvious separating Pat and Cody, what the risk is of this sort of thing happening again with somebody else, was his intial fear something to be concerned about, is he what is considered to be a fear biter?

I've never had a biter before. I would like to know if there is some issue I need to address on Cody's side. I already know what Pat did, Cody was warning him, Pat concluded Cody was challenging him and he had to "assert his authority" to put him in his place. In all reality Cody was scared, hence the running and the rolling on the back. Pat didn't read those signs and continued anyway. Voila, a bite incident. BUT - should the actions that ocurred early in the chain of events been something to put the fear of God in Cody?

Kim

[hks]

Cody's ma - Pat should not have been disciplining Cody with force. The kennel is not supposed to be used as a punishment - it's supposed to be a safe place/den. You are correct - the dog retreated to its bed, and was laying belly up. Reaching for Cody's collar at that point would have looked like hitting/striking. There is no quicker way to get bitten by a Rottweiler than striking it. I agree wholeheartedly with the response above - rotties respond well to positive reinforcement, not negative. (they do respond negatively to negative reinforcement - I guess they're consistent.) The only time my own rottie has ever bitten me was when I tried to spank her for doing something bad. Big mistake. I was in shock, and I cried, but it was my own fault. Your 17 month old Cody is still a baby - I'm glad you're getting your own place - you shouldn't have to worry about this same thing happening. If any further trouble happens with the quarantine, maybe you can get Pat to tell his side of the story and minimize the punishment to the dog. Good luck!

[Dutch Liz]

You should not worry about Cody and/or what an effect this 'event' might have on her futher life. However the combination Cody Pat will be much more difficult now.
'Cause Cody will not have any trust in him anymore. And who can blame her ?
Cody fully surrendered towards him more then once and he just continued coming after her.
I think Cody felt at the end she was threatened with her life. Especially 'cause he reached to her neck. Maybe he only wanted to reach out for her collar but for her it looked like he wanted to bite her in her neck. I really feel sorry for Cody, how sqared she must have been.
Don't loose faith in her, she acted the right way and Pat must be glad he only got bitten in the hand.'Cause when a Rottwieler really feels threatened the surviving instinct comes up and then they can be really dangerous.
Liz

[Dutch Liz]

By the way, this surviving instinct is there not only with Rottweilers but with all types of dogs. Big or small, makes no difference.
I just want to make clear that this is not typical behaviour only for Rottweilers, but for all dogs when they feel threatened.
Liz

[German Vanegas]

Let me put it plain and blatant: Pat applied the wrong correction method, totally, due to ignorance or negligence... let's call it lack of knowledge in dog's behavior, particularly Rotties'... The way Pat behaved put your otherwise fine Rottie into defense drive, so an inborn drive "kicked-in" when your dog faced a serious threat (at least to your dog's view of the actions). Had Pat known how to appropietaly correct your dog, I guarantee you the incident would not had happen. Pat's improper handling of the situation, and consequent actions, produced your dog's natural reaction. What a shame. Now who knows what Animal Control may do.

[narciso]

Let's examine the facts...
Cody arrived into the house and found something she didn't like and started looking for a responsible. Pat ran to the other side of the livingroom then he notes that Cody approachs to him in a menacing manner and Pat shows her a baseball bat and said "don't attack me". Cody start growling and approaching to him and he ran to other side and tries to get hidden to avoid confrontation. Cody goes after him and he ran to the last corner of the room and said: " ok, you win, please don't attack me" but Cody approaches to him growling menacing and...
UUMMM! I think I know why Pat attacked Cody with his baseball bat. Do you ?

------------------

[act]

Liz is absoulutely correct. The majority of dogs will exhibit an aggressive behavior if they are threatened while on their back. In dog language, a roll over is complete submission and other dogs know it. If the aggressor comes in for an attack while the submissive is totally unprotected the only defense is to bite. I've seen this with Maltese, Lab, Golden, cross breeds, you name it - if you lunge at them or are aggressive, they feel "fatally" threatened and will respond. I don't believe Cody is a biter. However, you should remember this is the way he responds in this particular situation. What has helped in my experince is after the dog rolls over, take a step back, give a command that you know he will obey (sit is a good one), after the command is excuted you can give him the rest of the commands or training. Also, Cody trusts and loves you. Thus, he knows you would not harm him. He does not have this relationship with Pat. That is probably why his hackles went up and his behavior was different toward Pat. Having a "stranger" severly reprimand/displine your dog can be very scarey/threatening to the dog. Good luck - I'm glad you're getting your own place in two weeks!

[German Vanegas]

act,
Your reply kind of describes a fear-biter dog more than anything. I believe Cody tried to avoid the confrontation, and so she went into avoidance drive. Being totally cornered, Cody had no choice but to bring out defensive behavior. Quite different view of the incident.

[Ct. Tom]

Get Pat educated from what you said I beleive this has happened before!!Most dogs not just Rottweilers don't act this way unless its happened before generally speaking.Pat just pushed his buttons to hard this time!!Take Pat to obedience class with you maybe he will learn something!

[judy v]

and besides, cody was not necessarily the guilty one. you just can't expect dogs to "confess." it doesn't work that way. my guess is that cody ran because of the tone of Pat's voice. i,too, think that there had been an encounter before. she thought the best thing to do was get out; he took the response as a sign of guilt. i really hope this turns out alright for you. what a tough situation!

[Orville Story]

I agree with German. The dog went into avoidance, then into submission, finally defence. Pat was to blame, period!

Training other peoples dogs I sometimes get bit, 99% of the time it was because I made a mistake. So when I go the E-room I always say, " I fell on some rocks". They know didn't fall on rock, but what can they do?
Why should some dog have this on his record because I was stupid?

[Codys ma]

Thanks so much for responding. I talked to an animal behaviorist on Friday and he said Cody displayed perfectly normal dog behavior. He viewed the situation as threatening because although he knows Pat, he doesn't have a lot of confidence or trust in him because Pat doesn't feed, train, or play with him. I am Cody's primary caretaker and Cody relies on me to protect him in a threatening situation. Well, since I wasn't there Cody did what he thought was best and the rest is history. Pat understands what he did wrong, and Animal Control is allowing me to home quarantine Cody.

Cody is now crated unless I am home to supervise, and we are just finishing out our time at that house until we move. He has not been adversely affected by this incident, he is now the same old Cody even towards Pat.

So, all's well that ends well, although it's a shame this bite had to happen, it couldn't have turned out any better.

Kim

[Santiago]

Warning, this is very dangerous as pat is part of the household where you live and even if he rolled on his back, cody is not being submisive. because he bit him, he feels that his standing in the pack is highe, and this could have been much worse. You love cody and that is very beautiful, but dont forget that he is still an animal, and that in the chain of command he is at the bottom. i have 3 dogs one is a rott and i can tell you that my doughter who is 2 years and 6 months tells he r whta to do and if she can do what she pleases. and if its too much shell pee herself, now dont think this puppy is not dangerous if someone else comes and does any of the things we do thier toast she is a very aggressive dog. but she is very controlled, he has to put some padding or something and do what he whants, he is part of the family if not you should move, and becarefull cody could do it to you.
ask any trainer with experience.
well all the luck to you.