Testing a rescue

[BoogerRed]

I'm home today and have spent much of the time testing our adoptee. Things that I remember prospective K9 working dogs go through to determine if they have the temperment to be successful. I've gone outside for several minutes, then rang the doorbell. No response. No growls, barks, nothing. I had my barely english speaking German neighbor ring the doorbell when he passed by for his morning walk. He walked to the door to sniff and I went to open the door. Axel just sniffed my neighbor and invited him to pet by rubbing his head against his hand. I've called our home number several times while he was napping and while he was eating. No reaction. I even went as far as to scream to try and startle him while napping. He just pops his head up and looks at me wondering why I just woke him up.

As I stated in my initial post. New Owners in Germany with concerns, he is a 4 year old neutered male. 105 pounds. Born and raised here in Germany. Given up by his initial owners because the wife hated him so much she threatened to leave the husband. I do know the husband cried alot when he gave him over to the center we found him.

Everything I have seen shows he is a good natured dog. Unphased by other dogs and pre 10 year old kids. Any other ideas to test his temperment? My experience with the breed is limited to law enforcement working dogs only.

[JeanT]

Given up by his initial owners because the wife hated him so much she threatened to leave the husband. I do know the husband cried alot when he gave him over to the center we found him.

Sounds like the situation from which I got my first Rottweiler. He was the most incredible dog I will ever know.

Give your dog a break! (And give him a name. ) He's going to think you are crazy if you keep this up. You've got a good, solid dog. Now it's time for you and your wife to let him into your lives and hearts. Make him part of your family, not a conditional boarder.

[BoogerRed]

I've laid off of him for about an hour now. My wife thus far likes to baby him. We talked about it and for the next several weeks all commands given by her will be stern and firm in voice. She is going to feed him. This may be mean, but it's a trick I learned from a friend who was a K9 officer. (The department we worked for encouraged officer's to socialize their dogs with their families) She is going to take up his bowl to feed him and go to put it down, then ignore him as she puts the bowl on top of the fridge. Wait 15 minutes or so and then let him have his food. This worked wonders for my friend's wife. Samson was at the time the largest known working dog in military and law enforcement. She was 110 pounds and barely 5 feet tall and she had her spot above him in a matter of 9 days.

Any other ideas for my wife to establish dominance? I've read a few threads on the issue here but was hoping for some more recent advise.

Forgot, he is named. Axel. Nice German name. No intentions on trying to change it. :)

[JeanT]

What you propose sounds fine, not mean. After his food is put down, leave him in peace to eat.

I'd like to hear "dominence" and "alpha" removed from your vocabulary. (I know, I know, a lot of people use it. I think it's misused, labelling to cover uncertainty and fear. Same with "aggression". The growl Axel gave when "hugged" was a perfectly civil canine warning. As explained before, that was in canine behavior terms a threat, and Axel did not lash out, he said, "Back off".)

[brunie's mom]

Please do not over analyze this.
You have had this dog only a few days...he is just getting settled. Stop testing him.
When I got a new foster dog....I gave them the first week to settle in. I did not ask much from them...they were often traumatized after sitting in a shelter for weeks. Don't start giving baths or doing any heavy duty training.
See what they do know ...eg. sit, stay, down and ask them to do this a few times a day. Give the dog a brush...if they enjoy it.

Once he has settled in and he realizes that he is staying and starts bonding with you and your wife then you can see what he knows and what you want to teach him.

Let him come to you for a pet or a scratch...do not be hovering. As far as feeding....show him the bowl....make him do a sit...and then let him eat in peace.

I agree with JeanT...forget about this "dominance" and "alpha" stuff....just think of him as a dog. He is not your best friend yet....this will come with time. Let him fit into your life...take things s-l-o-w-l-y.

He sounds like a very nice dog.

Gina

[HerculesMomma]

Originally Posted by BoogerRed

I've laid off of him for about an hour now.

Try longer than an hour for goodness sakes! Leave the dog be, it almost seems antagonistic (sp?) to keep testing him. Trust me, you will have plenty of opportunity to see what the dog is all about as time goes by and different scenarios present themselves. Besides, you may not see what the dog is all about until after the honeymoon period is over, which is 3 to 6 months from now.

I also do not see what the point is of putting food in the bowl and putting it on top of the fridge - what does this accomplish/teach the dog? Personally, I would ask the dog to do a sit/stay or down stay then put the food on the floor. Release the dog when you see fit so they can eat. This is part of the NILF (nothing in life free) program.

I do think your overthinking things a bit - which I am sure comes from excitement over the new dog.

[BoogerRed]

Originally Posted by HerculesMomma

Try longer than an hour for goodness sakes! Leave the dog be, it almost seems antagonistic (sp?) to keep testing him. Trust me, you will have plenty of opportunity to see what the dog is all about as time goes by and different scenarios present themselves. Besides, you may not see what the dog is all about until after the honeymoon period is over, which is 3 to 6 months from now.

I also do not see what the point is of putting food in the bowl and putting it on top of the fridge - what does this accomplish/teach the dog? Personally, I would ask the dog to do a sit/stay or down stay then put the food on the floor. Release the dog when you see fit so they can eat. This is part of the NILF (nothing in life free) program.

I do think your overthinking things a bit - which I am sure comes from excitement over the new dog.

I probably am overthinking things. I admit it. I do overanalyze and over worry. The method I described is how my friend had his wife establish herself higher on the pecking order from his LE K9. He explained to me that the dog recognizes her as the food provider thus his dependence on her to eat before their shift. I don't doubt the method at all considering he was a K9 Officer and went through loads more training than I did. The only training I had is how to be around a working dog when you're working towards the same goal. (Catching bad guy) Also what to do if the off command fails and he decides to turn on you.

[Snooze]

My last rottie was adopted at about 4 yrs old and was a tremendous watchdog. However, for the first 2 months he would not react at all if someone came to my door or was in my yard. He didn't feel that this was his home, therefore did not feel protective of it. Same thing with my new pup. He is 7/8 months and I've had him about 7 wks. He just became super watchdog this weekend! It takes time for the dog to feel at home

[RottyMom]

As others have said if you want your wife to feed the dog fine...but just have him sit and wait when the bowl is put down and then give an "OK" or whatever word you want to use. He will know she's feeding him. I too have an very large adult rescue and they need time to adjust...mine also growled the first day when he was touched around his neck area. I would not call it agression...just the dogs way of saying I don't like that. He's been with us for a year now and just has the most delightful temperment...be patient...I saw significant changes in this dog still happening 8 to 10 months after we got him.

[JeanT]

The only training I had is how to be around a working dog when you're working towards the same goal. (Catching bad guy) Also what to do if the off command fails and he decides to turn on you.

Hey, the training you are talking about (and the method to do it) is entirely different from what your family dog has and will be trained to do. Axel is a family dog with what sure seems to be a nice dependable temperment. You be nice and dependable with him and you will get that in return.

Have you read any of the "tug" threads?

[BoogerRed]

He shows great characteristics of a watch dog. We sleep with our windows open at night, (Germany doesn't believe in air conditioners I guess) and some kind of animal was moving through the yard shuffling leaves, he was up and growling out the window looking for the noise. Last night a smoke detector fell from the mount and this time he went barking and growling like mad into the room, sniffing the doors and windows. I was very pleased with that.

RottyMom we'll try that method for a few days to see how it works out. I worked alot with him on his "stays" today by putting a treat down 10 feet or so away from him after making him sit. I would turn around, and walk another 10 feet and 4 out of 6 tries he was still sitting right where I left him. I told him to "Go get it" and he happily trotted over for his reward. Like I said, it's obvious he has had some training. I just wish I knew to what extent. He has been in the shelter since January with one family trying him for 17 days before giving up. Their explination was they could not secure liability insurance for him.

[BoogerRed]

Originally Posted by JeanT

Hey, the training you are talking about (and the method to do it) is entirely different from what your family dog has and will be trained to do. Axel is a family dog with what sure seems to be a nice dependable temperment. You be nice and dependable with him and you will get that in return.

Have you read any of the "tug" threads?

I sure have. When he wakes from his latest nap and goes and brings me his rope I'm going to try to give him the drop and wait for him to comply. I figure just hold on to the rope and not even look at him?

You're right. The training I have been through is a whole different ballgame. No doubt about it. I just bring it up to show my inexperience with the family dog Rottweilers. Even though when Samson was off the job he was a heck of a family dog God rest his soul. :)

[JeanT]

When he wakes from his latest nap and goes and brings me his rope I'm going to try to give him the drop and wait for him to comply. I figure just hold on to the rope and not even look at him?

Ahh, that's different from the game of tug. I would use that (if he brings you something) to work on "drop/out", whichever command you are going to use. I wouldn't put my hand on the object - there may be something he picks up that you don't want to touch If you have a tiny treat, give it to him when he drops. Only do that sometimes, make verbal praise the real reward. It is possible he does not know what drop/out means (especially if he was trained in German) and is trying to figure out the behavior you are looking for. My earlier post was assuming he knew the command, but maybe he doesn't... Also, by the way, taking the tug (even if you are just "holding it") may indicate to him that the game has begun. Even a slight pressure from you against him is going to cause him to respond with pressure against you. I think it would be better for you to put the tug away when your "game " is over. You bring the tug out to initiate the game when you are ready to play. You put it up when you are finished. Leave a toy or something else out that he can chew on or carry around - or bring to you.

Are there any basic obedience classes you can take? That's for you to learn, by the way I found this dog-training stuff to be a lot less intuitive than I thought it was.

[damp]

Originally Posted by BoogerRed

I worked alot with him on his "stays" today by putting a treat down 10 feet or so away from him after making him sit. I would turn around, and walk another 10 feet and 4 out of 6 tries he was still sitting right where I left him. I told him to "Go get it" and he happily trotted over for his reward. Like I said, it's obvious he has had some training. I just wish I knew to what extent.

What exactly are you testing? I mean it takes years and lot of experience with 100 and 100 of dogs, to evaluated/test dogs. Dogs who pass a tough mental test will in many (most cases I think) fail a rescue/shelter test for adoption to a pet home.

First, you have to evaluate yourself, your family and what you want/expect and then have more experienced people to test the dog to see if it fits your household.

Please take it slowly. Today your dog learned he could break a command... and why not? Why should he obey a stranger?
Teach him, as he was a pup but treat and respect him as an adult male!

[JeanT]

Originally Posted by damp

Please take it slowly. [BOLD]Today your dog learned he could break a command...[/BOLD] and why not? Why should he obey a stranger? Teach him, as he was a pup but treat and respect him as an adult male!

Well, there you go! As you read more here you will recognize damp as one of the members who really knows what she is talking about. Her English is every bit as efficient as her intellect. You may well being confusing or un-training Axel with the "testing". Can you go to a simple obedience class or have some lessons with a private trainer? Again, the purpose is to train you, which is no insult. You learn first, then you train your dog.