My dog bit someone today (LONG)

[snhagood]

First off, HI! I'm back from vacation in Virginia, and (yes, this pertains to the dog) for the past two weeks, I've been able to leave Talyn (14 mos old) unconfined in the house without her destroying anything! My sister has two dogs, and I was visiting her for 1.5 months, and Talyn got to have a lot of interaction with them at a time when she had been getting placed in her kennel at night, and when no one was home, because she was being destructive. So that's been really nice, feeling like I can trust her.. until tonight.

Let me try to explain the lay of the land so this story will make more sense to some of you. I live in an area that was once used for strip mining, so infront of my house is our first front yard, on either side of a walkway, and the yard is boxed in by 5ft shrubs from corner to corner. Behind the shrubs is strip of sidewalk. Going up from that is a grassy area (basically there's a small hill infront of my house), and beyond that is a curb, because the street sits above that. We have to use stairs in the hillside to get to our cars. To some of you that might not make any sense but I don't know how to better describe it.

I had Talyn outside today to pottie, because of all the rain I didn't want her in the backyard, she'd come in muddy. I had her pinch collar on her, and this is a routine we've done since she was 10 weeks old. The hillside is our property also, so that's one of her designated pottie areas. There's a boy up the street who used to walk past me and Talyn, and always reach to pet her. I knew that she didn't like him, so after it started making me uncomfortable, I advised him not to pet her. If he would be too close to her, she would growl at him, and I have always corrected that behaviour. It got to the point where if I saw him coming, I'd walk back on my walkway or porch, put her in a sit, and make her stay there until after he walked by.

Well, today he's coming up the street, and he's 3 houses away. Talyn was in the middle of a pottie moment, but saw him and began to walk in his direction. At this time, she was on my right hand side, and I was watching to see how she'd behave. I heard a little growl, and I said "Talyn, Come". She began walking towards me, and I said "heel" to get her on my left side. By the time she was near the right side of my body, this boy has just gotten on the sidewalk infront of my house. I begin to walk towards the walkway, but he's in the middle of the sidewalk, which puts me against wet 5ft tall shrubs, and trying to cram my dog in the heel position. He is still in the middle of the sidewalk, moving forward, and then comes to a stop infront of my walkway - where I need to get to. I try to pull Talyn behind me and step onto the walkway, and she steps forward and bites the boy on the leg. He yells "OW!" and I look down to see what the situation is - thankfully he had on thick denim jeans, she hadn't bitten through them. I asked if he's ok, but he didn't hear me (he's fine, spoke to his mom). I snapped Talyn's collar and put her in a sit. Then I put her in a down. I made her stay for a few minutes, and then walked her through some more commands from class. Then I brought her in the house.

I wish I had moved faster to the walkway infront of my house, but I didn't, and now I'm wondering if it's a good thing that I didn't, because I never expected this behaviour out of her. The thing is that now I don't know what to do to check for aggressive habits. I take this dog out all the time, she's well socialized.. the people at the local Wal-Mart call her the unofficial greeter, so could it just be a problem with this particular boy? Would it be stupid and naive to assume that it's just a small problem when it could be the tip of something larger?

There's something else for me to mull over, also - while at my sister's she learned to play rougher than I let her play before, because I was advised not to play aggressively with her if she was already 'unruly', so was that a good idea and this behaviour has something to do with how she learned in 6 weeks to trade scars with two other dogs? I'm not at all afraid of her, I just want to be as sure as I can be, with advice from those here, that I do the right thing to make sure I don't have a dog who later down the road hurts someone, and I didn't do what I should have to curb it at 14 months old.

Please, read as many times as you need to, and ask questions, I'll answer whatever I can. I just want to do the right thing for my best gal.

[denverday]

I don't really know what to say.I just feel bad because no one has replied to you. One thing is I hope you are still going to obedience training.I keep seeing that it is needed for a minimum of 3 years.This is completely unacceptalble behavior.Even if you are not afraid of her she is obviously not afraid of you either or she would heed your warnings.IMO.. I also would not walk her up that way again until you have it figured out. Mud or not.I hope that you are not stuck on a one way road with this.
Good Luck

[BostonRott]

Was she on leash or off leash when this happened?

Besides Walmart, what other exposure does she get to other people?

How many training classes has she been to, and when was the last one?

Was she hackled at the time of the bite? Growling?

[snhagood]

Thanks denverday, I was feelin' bad myself! :)

What I've decided to do since waiting for a reply is that on rainy days she'll have to remain in the part of our yard that's blocked off by shrubs - it's relatively big, I just liked giving her a little more room to find whatever the heck she sniffs for when she has to pee *lol* or if I see someone coming, mid poo or not, I'll just move. The delay in me thinking that she'd finish going pottie was part of the problem, because I had ample time to take her to the porch, it would have only taken about 5-10 seconds. Definitely not stuck on a one way road, we have a huge backyard - but she's a digger, so on rainy days I take her out the front door, instead of taking her down two flights of stairs to backyard level. In the backyard she's allowed to run free, I didn't want to take her out there on lead. But if I take her out in the front yard, it's blocked off from the sidewalk, so she'll be unable to get near anyone. Time and space seems to have been the issue - she's leery of this boy, he was inches from me, and I waited too long to have her heel, where she would have been away from him. It was awkward to explain, but I honestly do not fault her training - this boy was close enough to me to see the colours of his eyes and she was already upset. The fault is mine for not moving as quickly as I normally do when I see this boy coming. I just got back from vacation, and was gone for 6 weeks, so no, she's not currently in classes, but I can tell already we're going to have the same problem as last year - flooding, classes cancelled, can't get her in til Winter. But I'm still working with her using their methods, for now.

BostonRott, she was on leash at the time, and a pinch collar, which I did snap, but I needed more physical distance between myself and this boy, or a longer arm, as I was unable to pull her far enough away from him. He was that close... sidewalk is about 2 feet wide, if that.. and he's trying to walk past me, pushing a bike on his left, and I'm trying to put her in heel on my left, between my body and shrubs.

Literally, this dog goes everywhere she's permitted. Wal-Mart, 2 local parks, grocery store, pet store, over to friend's homes, a friend's office (and he's a doctor, so she gets to meet adults and kids, and play with another dog that sometimes visits), people come to visit at home, the cellular store, vet's office on non-appointment days, long walks around the neighborhood where we stop in various gas stations and say hi, the dang police station *lol* .. I think the only place I don't take her is when I have a doctor's appt, because he's always soooo slow! :)

She's done one obedience class - weather delayed class being started, then after classes were over I had her fixed, when she healed they were already in the midst of a class and the next ones wouldn't be starting until I was going out of town, and I've been home for 2 weeks and now we're about to have major flooding, so.... it's going to be a delayed start for Advanced Basic, but I have been working with her based on their techniques. I couldn't tell you if her hackles were up, because I could barely see her... really.. that close. But I did hear her growl and that's what made me snap her leash, but by then she had bitten his leg. It was a low growl, and short... not much time between the growl and the bite. Significant in any way?

[snhagood]

I must say, with as much tact as I can drum up, I am absolutely shocked that only two people have replied to this posting (and thank you, btw). I just read a lengthy listing by parrisopiglet where her dog bit a friend and the person required 38 stitches. There's two pages of listings. Has no one replied any further because I'm onto something with my theories? Am I doing the right thing by my dog? 2 weeks after getting Talyn I joined this group, because I've never owned a Rottweiler before, and wanted to make sure I got the best advice possible. The first thing I worried about after I came in the house was law enforcement showing up to take her away from me, I was petrified. I posted here because I thought someone would be able to perhaps shed some light on this for me, because I was absolutely shocked, and still am, that she bit this boy. I KNOW she's afraid of him, and I always keep her away from him, which I assumed was the best thing to do. All I truly wanted to know is what I should now do to assure the best that I can that she doesn't do this again. And no postings. Is it because no one was maimed? I really don't understand.

Most of all, I'm truly hurt. I am not a breeder, my dog doesn't have papers, but she is a Rottweiler, she's my Rottweiler, and I love her more than I thought possible. I got her when I didn't want a dog, because my heart was still broken over having my Labrador put to sleep, but she got in there anyway. I just want to make sure I'm doing right by her, and that's why I posted this, for help. Apparently, on this topic, no one has anything to give, so I'll wing it and hope for the best.

[denverday]

Just out of curiosity how old is this boy and has he done anything to tease or torment your dog? i too am suprised , but I'm finding that alot.I guess you're not dumb enough or dramatic enough to respond to.(NOT my opinion) I would advise to keep on going to training and try to keep her away from the sidewalk for now.
I would maybe go as far as to say try to get her evaluated. I don't see why a selter or rescue wouldn't help you with that.
Again feeling bad for you

[moondog]

Originally Posted by denverday

I guess you're not dumb enough or dramatic enough to respond to.

This is quite a proclamation. Great way to make friends and influence people.

Originally Posted by snhagood

Most of all, I'm truly hurt. I am not a breeder, my dog doesn't have papers, but she is a Rottweiler, she's my Rottweiler, and I love her more than I thought possible

I do not know why you haven't gotten more replies, but I can tell you without question that it most certainly does NOT have anything to do with you not being a breeder (that's admirable for most people), or your dog not having papers (do you have any idea how many rescue dogs belong to members here? Take a head count.)

When I read first read your post...and I do work so didn't have time to reply, just read...the thought that went through my mind is why you were trying to hurry towards the boy to get to the gate instead of simply walking the opposite direction towards the street.

About the boy...is he a friendly person?

[Judi W]

No, I read this and the reason I didn't write is that I thought you quite clearly recognized that you were not very responsible in how you managed things and saw no reason to rub your nose in it. But, since you asked.

OK, so here goes. You know that she is not comfortable with this particular person and she has informed of this. But, starting at the beginning.

For some reason you took her to a public area to relieve herself even though you have a perfectly good front yard as well as back yard for her to do her business in. (by the way, hedged is not the same as fenced) If you want to reward her by giving her more smelling and exploring, I would think you'd take her for a walk.

When you saw the boy coming, you could easily have moved to the hill instead of insisting on the sidewalk where you would be crowded by someone you know the dog is uneasy about. She had in the past given you ample information that she was not comfortable with this person, you knew that and had previously kept her away from him, but this time you did not follow your own good advice about that. The excuse about trying to get to the porch doesn't explain why you didn't just move off the sidewalk and up the hill.

Instead of using your leash to quickly put her where she would be safe from misbehaving, you decided to practice obedience (even though she has very little), with your heel command and though you know (or should have known) that she is emotional about this person and when a dog is emotional, they are not thinking and especially a green dog is not going to have obedience over-ride its emotion.

Why is she this way about this particular person? It might have started out with unease about the bike or some other silly thing. Then you became involved and she picked up on that and it expanded her distrust rather than dampening it.

I would say lesson learned, or at least I would hope lesson learned and you got off cheaply at that. For whatever reason you have a girl who is lacking in confidence, is willing to bite to prove it and with limited obedience as well. Yes, it would be naive to think this is a small thing. She has shown fearfullness when there is no danger and has bitten. If you did not correct her till she thought she was going to meet her maker instantly, the next time she is fearful she will likely want to do that which was successful this time.

No, playing rough has nothing to do with fear biting.

[denverday]

I was not tring to influence or insult, just suggestion on how to word to get replies.I am here only to get info.I do not feel qualified to make my own advice.I am replying only with info I have already found here.Sorry if you felt as if I'm attacking.
I am wondering if this boy has tormented this dog before.
If the dog is that unpredictable, or predictably agressive perhaps the is help or not.
I would suggest putting the dog down only after a good eval by a qualified person.
JMO

[snhagood]

denverday:

To the best of my knowledge, this boy hasn't threatened her. There was a time when she was just a few months old that when he would see her, he'd just reach out and pet her without thinking twice about it. One day, he went to walk past her and she growled at him, and I told him not to pet her. Since then, if we see him while we're outside, she just gets aggravated. The family in general is weird, we keep our interactions with them to a minimum. The only thing I can guess is that either Talyn truly didn't like him petting her and it got on her nerves, because I believe she began growling at him at 5 months old. An evaluation is a really good idea though, just to find out what I'm working with. Thank you.

moondog:
I was just trying to get her to the walkway so the boy could walk home without incident, because I know my dog doesn't like him. He's friendly, but he's really strange, as is the whole family. You ever know a family where the father is a know-it-all, mom is a little nuts, and the kids suffer for it? They're like that. When I first brought Talyn home, he was asking me if my dog was an American or German Rottweiler. I was like "I don't know"...and then I stumbled upon this message board and discovered the truth.. she's a Rottweiler *lol* They're just.. different people. The boy is nice but something about him sets my girl off, so I just try to keep her away from him. I guess I was rushing because I realized he didn't even think to not move forward until I could get her out of the way, he just kept walking, and knowing she doesn't like him I was concerned. The opposite direction up the sidewalk would have taken me towards his home, and the street runs parallel to the sidewalk and is elevated above sidewalk level, I couldn't get to the access stairs from where I was standing.

Honestly, the only thing I believe I could have done was cut her off mid-poo, took her to the walkway, waited for him to pass, and then spend an extra 10 minutes waiting for her to go again. It would have been better than what occurred.

[snhagood]

And I'm definitely not putting down a 14 month old Rottweiler because a boy she doesn't like was inches from her. The blame was on me, not on her, for not reacting fast enough. There is only one other person she growled at, and that was when she was about 9 months old, she was afraid of the woman's hat. If I were to have her evaluated, and a professional said she was not salvagable, then I'd consider it, but I have a strong suspicion that's not the case.

[debbiej]

I was typing and re-typing a long reply. my battery low warning came on, and I lost my long rambling reply. probably a good thing because I don't have much experience with biting dogs.

there has been a lot of posts about dog bites and a lot of discussion. however mostly it had to do with the justification of the bite. person with too much to drink hugs dog from behind, neighbor reaches whole arm over fence toward dog, etc.

This is a case of a dog biting a kid, seemingly unprovoked, and unfortunately is pretty straightforward. Situations like this are a good example of why people think badly of rottweilers, and could have been prevented by a better understanding of how to train and read your dog.

I took ownership of two rotties, close to the age of yours. I have a little grandaughter and before I even brought the dog home, had hardened my heart to the idea that if there was any sign of instability of temperament, I would loving put the dog to rest. they both had enough problems (health and behavior problems, but no biting) that I didn't think I could find them good homes. It is my thought that you need hands-on professional help to evaluate whether this dog can be safe.

[moondog]

OK, it hasn't been easy, , but now I think I understand why you couldn't go the opposite direction...because you had hedge on one side and a hill too steep to climb on the other? A very tight space for her to find herself in with a boy and his bike who she's not comfortable with to begin with. Assuming you could not have moved along the sidewalk away from the boy until you got to a place where you could move off the sidewalk, you probably should have asked the boy to stop and give you enough room to get to your walkway.

It sounds like this is the only person she is wary of, is that right? When you take her out and about, is she friendly with everyone? Are there any places you take her that make her nervous or on edge?

[gomer9855]

I'm not an expert, either, and I'm not saying whether you should put your dog down or not, but your dog has many choices to do in a situation like that. So someone she didn't like was near her. So what? If someone you don't like walks past you do you haul out and slug them? No, you ignore them and go about your business. She could have growled and not bit. She could have not growled, she could have turned away, or better yet, she could have turned to YOU. She chose to bite. It's a bad choice. What you do about is up to you. I personally have a zero tolerance for bites.

[snhagood]

Yesssss... you got it moondog! :) Part of people not understanding the situation is not understanding the structure of my street. NO, Judi, she was not in a public area when she could have been in our front yard - we have 3 front yard, and she was in the one near the sidewalk (the hillside), because we've got flooding going on and water runs downhill. I can't explain it any better than that.

And yes, moondog, this is the only person she's wary of. Sometimes she's in the backyard playing, and I'm inside, and this boy could have teased her through the fence, I don't know. I know that he hasn't been walking around for a year with a bicycle strapped to his side. But this is my mistake, in ALL regards, and I'll know much better next time, on all fronts. Bye.