Puppy biting=Dominance?

[VANCOUVERISLANDROT]

I have a question about puppy dominance. Oscar's 14 weeks old now and he's STILL biting. He doesn't bite anyone (my dh, visitors etc)....ONLY me. It's always only in the a.m. or after his afternoon nap when he's totally hyped out before we go out on our morning walk. He gets totally worked up and nothing and I mean NOTHING works to stop him. I can do 100 dominance downs, scruff him, collar him, try and timeout, ignore him, re-direct with toys etc, etc, etc, always give him a firm NO BITING....he's right back at me as soon as he's released,. no matter what I do to this dog he doesn't care.

My dh has shown me how to control him with the dominance down and how to hold him etc (my dh raised a rotti before) but it just doesn't work for ME only. On the other spectrum, Oscar follows me everywhere and goes nuts if he can't find me. He's attached to my hip and given the choice to be with me or any other family member....there is no choice for him, he'll stay or leave with only me. He also listens to me really well (excluding the biting of course) as I'm the one who mostly works on his training. When it comes to commands etc he pretty much does anything I ask. But biting...ugh!!!!!!!!!

I believe his biting is a total dominance issue...am I correct? He will also try and hump me once in awhile..which is also dominance? It's getting beyond frustrating because I think I'm doing everything right. He just so stubborn and just won't stop biting me. My dh and I can both be on the ground playing with him, he'll go beserk biting/rough housing me. It's almost like he thinks I'm a playmate/sibling. He plays with me like I'm another dog?! Does that sound bizarre??

He does start obedience on Monday night. We've decided to take him to a one-on-one trainer in lieu of puppy kindergarden. He's got sit, down, paw, up (taps ur fingers with both paws. haha!) and he's got a "visual" stay down. So he does listen to me! haha! Just not as he's dining on my flesh.

Does anyone have any other suggestions to explain this behavior and/or comments on something I should/could be doing?

Thanks!
Julie

[kywildcat581]

Well I am not a professional trainer and I don't try to be

But I will say this... Blitz is 4.5 months old so not too much age difference between the two of them. I have to deal with the same thing but it is not really bad with me, puppies alike any other baby go through a couple stages - teething and hormones.

The biting seems to be easing off a bit with Blitz and it is not mean biting at all, its almost like a lovable biting which I dont see as domination personally. He gets a misdirection and I hld his mouth open a bit when he does this (not enough to hurt him) but to make him uncomfortable. Now he is getting the point that when he puts my hand in his mouth his lower jaw gets pushed down - as soon as i do this now he quits. This is supposed to be painless to them but to limit jaw movement for anything isnt fun.

The humping... I feel like a 6'2 humping post... thing is though that it seems that they are getting to that age where the hormones are starting to change.. the puppy fur is going away - growth spurt kicking in and they are getting an idea that not only is that thing between the legs something to lick when they are bored, but it feels good too.

This problem I solve with a "NO" then a down and once in the down for a few and not intimate with my leg I will play.. hoping to put it in his head that its more fun to play with me nice than to hump on my leg. Chewing and biting with puppies last for a while.. I do know that, welcome to puppyhood.

As for a timeframe of when this will completel deminish... right around the time his adult teeth are in and hs gums stop hurting.itching. Human babies are bad about thiss as well... they explore with thier mouths and they chew to rid of the pain/itching sensation. You hav probably noticed a little less biting/chewing since the puppy teeth are cut through.. and I would imaging you may have this problem again shortly there after when adults start coming in... I could be wrong but I am expecting it as I expect the worst and pray for the best...

I hope this helps?

And one last note: if he is listening to you this well then you have gained some respect from him and he has an idea of his role in the pack.. rotties seem to like to test that role on occasion. Also - Blitz seems to be attached at my hip ad well... but I dont find offense to it, I acctually find it heartwarming that he wants to be withme and he knows he gets to learn new things with me... this may be what drives that since you are the one that works with his commands. Rotties love to work/learn. They have minds they love to use and will respect you for giving you this chance in live and the leadership/companion they want... have a ball with him!

[Judi W]

rude unmannerly behavior should not be confused with real dominance. It can however, develop into a dominance issue if not checked. There are however too many signs of disrespect, both the biting and the humping. There is no way I would tolerate a dog attempting to hump any part of me regardless of age. That a dog would attempt to do so more than once indicates that you have not expressed true outrage sufficiently.

One thing I would seriously suggest is that you quit trying to play with him as if you are a dog. You are not a dog! Get up off the floor and stand tall. If you use a little girly voice - get rid of it. Such a voice and the accompanying body language is not designed to get the respect of any strong-minded pup or dog. Use frontal body positioning, direct eye contact, a voice that carries authority and walk with authority.

[VANCOUVERISLANDROT]

Originally Posted by Judi W

rude unmannerly behavior should not be confused with real dominance. It can however, develop into a dominance issue if not checked. There are however too many signs of disrespect, both the biting and the humping. There is no way I would tolerate a dog attempting to hump any part of me regardless of age. That a dog would attempt to do so more than once indicates that you have not expressed true outrage sufficiently.

One thing I would seriously suggest is that you quit trying to play with him as if you are a dog. You are not a dog! Get up off the floor and stand tall. If you use a little girly voice - get rid of it. Such a voice and the accompanying body language is not designed to get the respect of any strong-minded pup or dog. Use frontal body positioning, direct eye contact, a voice that carries authority and walk with authority.

Okay well it's good to know it's rude behavior not dominance etc. For the record I don't tolerate him humping me whatsoever and correct him as soon as he tries it. I appreciate your advice and it does make sense however I have and do exactly as you've written (besides playing w/ him on the ground).

Maybe I wasn't very clear in explaining my predicament. I don't understand why it's not okay to play on the floor with you dog...you're not supposed to?? Why is that? I simply kneel or sit on the floor and play tug-war or fetch games with him. We don't wrestle, he doesn't climb on me, I don't crawl around or play like a "dog" whatsoever. And regardless if I'm standing or sitting and playing with him, I get the exact same biting/nipping etc. I can be in the backyard playing fetch and it's the same thing. I'm probably guilty of using a "girly" voice with him only when talking to him but not correcting. When I correct him I use a stern, loud and VERY direct voice, make eye contact, have a presence yada yada. He just does NOT care. I've tried being calm, yelling, making my voice extremely forceful sounding etc...same response...he just doesn't care.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by VANCOUVERISLANDROT

I have a question about puppy dominance. Oscar's 14 weeks old now and he's STILL biting. He doesn't bite anyone (my dh, visitors etc)....ONLY me. It's always only in the a.m. or after his afternoon nap when he's totally hyped out before we go out on our morning walk. He gets totally worked up and nothing and I mean NOTHING works to stop him. I can do 100 dominance downs, scruff him, collar him, try and timeout, ignore him, re-direct with toys etc, etc, etc, always give him a firm NO BITING....he's right back at me as soon as he's released,. no matter what I do to this dog he doesn't care.

My dh has shown me how to control him with the dominance down and how to hold him etc (my dh raised a rotti before) but it just doesn't work for ME only. On the other spectrum, Oscar follows me everywhere and goes nuts if he can't find me. He's attached to my hip and given the choice to be with me or any other family member....there is no choice for him, he'll stay or leave with only me. He also listens to me really well (excluding the biting of course) as I'm the one who mostly works on his training. When it comes to commands etc he pretty much does anything I ask. But biting...ugh!!!!!!!!!

I believe his biting is a total dominance issue...am I correct? He will also try and hump me once in awhile..which is also dominance? It's getting beyond frustrating because I think I'm doing everything right. He just so stubborn and just won't stop biting me. My dh and I can both be on the ground playing with him, he'll go beserk biting/rough housing me. It's almost like he thinks I'm a playmate/sibling. He plays with me like I'm another dog?! Does that sound bizarre??

He does start obedience on Monday night. We've decided to take him to a one-on-one trainer in lieu of puppy kindergarden. He's got sit, down, paw, up (taps ur fingers with both paws. haha!) and he's got a "visual" stay down. So he does listen to me! haha! Just not as he's dining on my flesh.

Does anyone have any other suggestions to explain this behavior and/or comments on something I should/could be doing?

Thanks!
Julie

I'm in possession of a very high drive, sassy 20week old. At around 12 weeks of age, she learned two very valuable lessons.... Don't bite the hand that feeds you, and don't bite the hand that feeds you.

You don't need to be a total monster, but you do need to get your point across. A correction is an action that extinguishes an undesirable behavior.

That being said, I like to turn a negative experience into a positive one. By doing so, I can teach my pup control. As long as I'm consistant with MY supervision, a spunky pup learns the ropes fairly quickly. These are smart pups.

So, after a correction, I calm the pup down in a very neutral fashion (no words, just gentle restraint), or I ask for an obedience behavior that I know my pup can succeed at. Not only am I teaching the pup control, I'm working on simple obedience in a positive manner. Teaching the pup that it really does have a choice.... behave badly, and there's a negative response from the big cheese.... behave acceptably, and life is good. Be short and to the point, and honestly deal with your pup....that's very important.

Correction or reward needs to be given in a VERY timely fashion, and consistancy is paramount.

Good luck.

[Judi W]

as far as the method of playing, it really depends upon the dog and the person and in this case, it seems that you would be best not getting down and dirty with the guy as he takes advantage. With other dogs it might make no difference. As you said he does not disrespect others to this degree, then there are some things going on and you simply need to change the dynamics that you can.

[VANCOUVERISLANDROT]

Well I guess I'll just have to keep doing what I'm doing but I guess a bit harsher and hopefully he eventually gets it. I already do what everyone recommends so I'm not really sure what else there is I can do different.

Maybe his trainer can give me further guidance on Monday night.

Thanks for the advice anyways.

Julie

[Judi W]

Often it is not what you do. There really is not a recipe wherein all the ingredients detailed out reach the same results for the same people. It is more often what the dog preceives as "who" you are. That is what you want to change.

[VANCOUVERISLANDROT]

Judi - that's pretty much the conclusion my dh and I have come to. Somewhere along the line I've unknowingly let Oscar know it's okay to rough house/play bite me. I honestly don't know when/where but it had to have happened for him to treat me so differently. I am and HAVE TO take this seriously and correct it NOW before it's too late and I have a 100 lb stubborn rotti thinking it's "fun" to nip me.

I'm going to stop playing on the floor with him and start being more strict and use firmer voice/body language. Also going to ask his trainer to help me out with some ideas/things to practice etc.

He's a super dog! I've never had such a "social butterfly" (he actually gets quite upset when strangers just walk by and don't say hello haha!) and his temperment is great...this just seems to be my one big obstacle with him.

Thanks for your advice, I'm going to really work on getting a handle on it.

Julie

[Judi W]

I have found that if I can get the "victim" to develop an attitude, this type of problem usually solves itself quite quickly. You need a "don't mess with me" attitude and it must be real. Not even a pissy pup is going to start things up with someone they believe would have them for lunch. They are not stupid.

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by VANCOUVERISLANDROT

Well I guess I'll just have to keep doing what I'm doing but I guess a bit harsher and hopefully he eventually gets it. I already do what everyone recommends so I'm not really sure what else there is I can do different.

Maybe his trainer can give me further guidance on Monday night.

Thanks for the advice anyways.

Julie

Harsh isn't necessarily what you want, either. It's really a matter of telling the truth to your pup. I can get my message across very easily now.

For instance, I just let my little one out of the crate. She bound out like the Tazmanian Devil, and took a pot shot at my inner thigh (you know, that really tender spot..LOL)... I stood up straight, looked her in the eye, and told her 'no', in a calm but meaningful tone.... I asked her to 'sit'.... which she did while 'arguing' with me, but she quickly calmed down, because I did not stimulate her in any other way.... She has come to learn that losing her mind is not acceptable, and gets her no where with me.

We got to this point by me reaching for her collar and holding both sides as she went out of control, and gently holding her in a neutral position. Eye contact, and a gentle "no" would calm her down quickly. Once I was sure that she had calmed, I let go of her collar, and immediately give her something to succeed at... i.e. 'sit'. I release her from her sit, and life goes on.

Patience and consistancy are very necessary.

Judi's absolutely correct... different pups take different treatment. There is no way in hell I'd play roughly with this girl.... she absolutely requires that her drives be controlled and managed properly. What I DO do (haha, I said do do) is use her energy and play drive to work on obedience and manners. This makes for VERY fun training.

Hope this helps...

[scooterjohansen]

Bite the pup on the ear till it realises you are boss never fails for me!!!! If you dont' try it you will never know. If the pup does not do it with anyone else your a winner the pup loves you and an ear bite coupled with what you are already doing will solve the problem. its ok to get on the floor and play with pup as long as he knows it is play and your the alpha...

[VANCOUVERISLANDROT]

Originally Posted by scooterjohansen

Bite the pup on the ear till it realises you are boss never fails for me!!!! If you dont' try it you will never know. If the pup does not do it with anyone else your a winner the pup loves you and an ear bite coupled with what you are already doing will solve the problem. its ok to get on the floor and play with pup as long as he knows it is play and your the alpha...

As much as I appreciate your input, by no means would I ever, ever bite my dogs ear. Perhaps some might think it's a good course of action but I would never do something to physically harm/hurt my dog. I'm trying to teach him not to bite me...me biting him (imo) tells him "hey! you wanna bite me, I'm gonna bite you harder back!". This guy is SUPER stubborn and spirited, he'd take it as a challenge to bite me harder. I just couldn't bring myself to physically hurt him, not for me.

Julie

[VANCOUVERISLANDROT]

Originally Posted by Judi W

I have found that if I can get the "victim" to develop an attitude, this type of problem usually solves itself quite quickly. You need a "don't mess with me" attitude and it must be real. Not even a pissy pup is going to start things up with someone they believe would have them for lunch. They are not stupid.

That makes total sense, hence why he totally respects and listens to my husband. My husband so much as gives Oscar a "hey!" and the dogs at attention. I have to figure out what I need to do to get the same respect with him. So this is totally about me learning for sure. I worked on some of your suggestions with him this morning for our morning walk and backyard play session and I could see a bit of a difference. It's just getting ahold of the bugger! lol It's like wrestling a pig...he's so unbelievably stubborn and CHEEKY. I'll correct him, tell him no and he'll lay there and yap, moan and totally verbalize back. I've got my work cut out! haha But on the other end I woudn't have it any other way because I do love his spunkiness and he has a great personality. Just need to teach him that I'm the boss!

Julie

[VANCOUVERISLANDROT]

Originally Posted by poohbearsmom

Harsh isn't necessarily what you want, either. It's really a matter of telling the truth to your pup. I can get my message across very easily now.

For instance, I just let my little one out of the crate. She bound out like the Tazmanian Devil, and took a pot shot at my inner thigh (you know, that really tender spot..LOL)... I stood up straight, looked her in the eye, and told her 'no', in a calm but meaningful tone.... I asked her to 'sit'.... which she did while 'arguing' with me, but she quickly calmed down, because I did not stimulate her in any other way.... She has come to learn that losing her mind is not acceptable, and gets her no where with me.

We got to this point by me reaching for her collar and holding both sides as she went out of control, and gently holding her in a neutral position. Eye contact, and a gentle "no" would calm her down quickly. Once I was sure that she had calmed, I let go of her collar, and immediately give her something to succeed at... i.e. 'sit'. I release her from her sit, and life goes on.

Patience and consistancy are very necessary.

Judi's absolutely correct... different pups take different treatment. There is no way in hell I'd play roughly with this girl.... she absolutely requires that her drives be controlled and managed properly. What I DO do (haha, I said do do) is use her energy and play drive to work on obedience and manners. This makes for VERY fun training.

Hope this helps...

Oooooooooooh do I EVER know the tender inside thigh spot. It's Oscar's FAV...and it hurts like a bugger! I have tons of bruises there. I had to go for blood last week and the lady took one look at my arms and was like "what the heck?!". It's pretty embarrassing....I bruise really easy and my arms look like I'm a junky. Really nice!

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm going to take this advice and put it to work. I agree with redirecting his attention to something he CAN do well...obedience. He loves it and it stops the biting/crazy behavior. He was trying to eat my shoes while I was putting them on for our morning walk this morning. I got him into a sit/stay and he did it but BOY did he ever talk! haha! He's sooooooo cheeky! He certainly did the sit/stay but he made sure I knew how discontent he was doing it. I've never had such a vocal/ spirited dog, it's unreal. He's not a barker at all, it's all about the talking.

Thanks for the advice! We're a working in progress...
Julie