Problem with two young males

[stevocarty]

hello,i have been a member of the forum for a while but this is my first post,i have browsed a lot in the last few months and learned quite a few things,now my problem is we have two 1 year rottweiler males unneutered(were advised by our vet to wait until they were 18 months old) who until very recently got on brilliantly they are litter mates and have never left each others side from the time i got them,but in the last 2-3 weeks they have had a few fights which i broke up soon after they were playing together again , but they had a fight 3 days ago which they just cant seem to get over,neither one is the alpha that is our terrier mix who they are both terrified of and whos authority has never been questioned,they have been seperated for the last few days but every time i try to reintroduce them they want to fight again, i make them both lay down and they will stay i wait a while when they seem to cool down but when i let them up another scuffle breaks out,i would appreciate if anyone could give me some advice,ive just never had this problem before growing up my father bred german sheperds and at any one time we had 2-3 males possibly four if a pup was returned for what ever reason,and we never had a problem,now ive asked my father who knows a lot about dogs but is kind of old school,he recomends bringing them to a field muzzeled and let them try to sort out there problems without letting it go to far but im not too sure about this method,he thinks that the one who was the alpha of the two (bruce)has been challenged and wants to regain his dominence which makes sense because (max ) never seemed to care about this until recently,if anyone could give me some advice or suggestions it would be greatly appreciated,as having to keep my dogs seperated is not an ideal way to live thanks bye.

[moondog]

I'm not the best one to answer, but one thought occurs to me. When you put them in a down to cool off, are they in the same room? If so, they have nothing to do but focus all the more on each other and then when you release them.......

[stevocarty]

thanks for the quick reply the three times ive tried to reintorduce them has been in the back yard when i make them lay down i also make them turn away from each other so thy cant stare at one another

[Judi W]

If you've been reading for a while then you realize that same age same sex is not recommended for exactly the reasons you are seeing. As dogs become mature, they are vying for the same position within the dog pack and regardless of training, once that hostility starts it is unlikely to go away. Choosing to have this combination means that you have to be prepared to live with them permanently separated.

The delay in neutering only makes sense if you don't have two same age. Your vet did not do you a service with the recommendation of delaying neutering when you have two going through adolesence and entering adulthood at the same time.

Your father's observations sound fine, except - dominant or wannabe, if the two are fairly balanced neither is going to accept the lesser position. Same age makes a huge difference because neither has the edge of age for status enhancement. The Rottweiler's heritage is not that of a breed with the characteristics to run in a pack like some hounds and sporting breeds.

I would recommend that they be kept separated or the next fight could easily result in serious injuries to one or both and also to the individual trying to break it up.

[brunie's mom]

Get them both neutered ASAP!!!
They are both a year old, and waiting longer is not going to make much of a difference in growth, size,etc....they have reached their full height, and should just be filling in now.

Everytime they get into a fight....it is only re-inforcing it more.
Get them neutered ( it may not be the only solution), get them into training classes, keep them seperated for now....and once you think the hormones have left...then try slowy taking them for walks together (make sure you have one person walking each dog).
Things may never work out between them. Are you prepared to keep them seperated for life? Have you thought of re-homing one??
It may be the only safe and fair thing to do.

Gina

[stevocarty]

thanks for everyones advice i have taken the advice and will contact my vet about having them neutered,i will keep them apart for now then try as you say to reintroduce them when i think theyve calmed down,they are still in obdience class even though they do everything they are told (except not to fight that is) as i thought it would be good for their socialisation,but will have to arrange for them to go seperatley,i am 21 and currently still living at home and planned to move out in the next year and take both them with me,but if it doesnt work out i may bring this forward and just take one , my father says hes more than happy to keep one as hes attached to them as i am,im still hopeing it works between them but if it doesnt at least i know i wont have to give one up,i appreciate everyones advice,mant thanks

[Judi W]

Excellent that you have a plan with options. Yes, keep them in training. If you don't have a way to get them to club together, take one one week and the other the next week. Keep this training up until at least 3 years of age. Seems like a long time, but you must get through the adolesent period, then through young adulthood and they have to learn to handle themselves in each stage. As you have discovered, the maturing dog sees the world through different eyes almost daily!

[saskman]

Not to add anything more to your plate, but just because the terrier is in charge now, don't think it will stay that way. My fiance and I have a male Jack Russel (2.5 years) and a male Rottie (14 months). The Rottie still knows who is boss, but he is starting to figure out that the JRT is only as big as his head. We have had a few spats, but it is easier to break up than with two big dogs. Just keep up the training, and do your best to enforce the pack heirarchy. Feed the dominant one first, let him outside first, greet him first, etc. This has helped us reinforce the order of things. Humans at top than the JRT and then the Rottie.

[JeanT]

Saskman, I am glad it is OK so far, but you may want to read some threads on changing dynamics, especially since your Rottweiler is achieving maturity. You can not artifically change (or maintain) pack status. The dogs will not be convinced, perhaps just controllable by you in your presence for a while. The JRT may end up being second in line. Don't let your own emotions (JRT was first so he should always be first) dictate. The dogs are going to work it out whether you like the change or not. Be prepared. Hopefully it will occur without bloodshed and requiring the dogs to be separated for life. The JRT may remain King, but don't think that you can help him keep his crown. If the Rottweiler wants the crown badly enough, and the JRT isn't willing to have a relatively civil transfer of power, there will be a real problem. (And by the way, it has nothing to do with size. The Rottweiler could have been first and the JRT the challenger.)

I am seeing this with my sister's dog and my male. About 3 years age difference. My sister's dog was clearly King for a year and a half. They played well together and all it took if my dog got too excited and rowdy in play was one good long killer look from my sister's dog and everything stopped. My dog would drop whatever they were playing (play fighting) over when he got the real eye, and my sister's dog would pick it up right from under my dog's head and trot off with it, tail wagging. Now that my dog is 2+, he has decided that he will be King. The other dog's "eye" no longer has the power over him. Twice they started into some pretty ferocious fights that would have been nothing but "play" noises before, but it only took about thirty seconds to see/hear that this was different and they were separated. They have not been allowed together for about three months now. If and when I can take my dog over and have a controlled reintroduction to see if they can agree without bloodshed, I may try it. Or I may not. Their play together for about a year or so was great fun for both as well as great exercise, but there is no purpose in having a battle for the crown. I'm sure glad that they are not both my dogs. Seeing them together a year ago I never would have imagined that they would be in this position now.