My dog bit someone...HELP- soon!

[parrisopiglet]

I loved the posting on dominance Mick, thank you! I have had my baby girl for 5 years now and have always taken dominance issues very seriously, particularly because I have a naturally VERY ALPHA bitch on my hands. We have never had any problems in these 5 years. I have always worked her on obedience and have had a wonderful reliable Rottie. 3 weeks ago she bit one of my friends in the face- 38 stitches worth. The incident was not an unprovoked one and could even be explained to some degree. Parris (my Rott) was about to go into heat and my friend who had been drinking quite a bit, gave her a surprise bear hug from behind. When Parris growled a warning my friend ignored it and ended up with 38 stitches. I went through a couple of days of nervousness, I'll admit it. But after several talks with my breeder I got past it and we were doing just fine again - wet doggie kisses and all.

HERE"S THE PROBLEM NOW: Last night I came home from a weekend in Florida visiting the family. Parris stayed at our house with my boyfriend, who she has known for a year and stayed with in the past. They had no problems while I was away. I got my usual happy dog greeting at the door but then a few moments later, during some kisses, she growled at me and gave me that look that anyone who has ever seen a dog who is pissed off knows well. I backed up away from her face and put her into a 'platz' immediately. We did some more obedience last night and today and she obeyed but she is continually looking at me with that "guilty" face - I don't know how else to describe it but I'll admit it makes me nervous. She has never in 5 years growled at me and I have never seen this behavor in her before. I am taking her to the vet tomorrow morning to see if there is anything causing her physical discomfort - but should that turn out to not be the case - do you have any thoughts?

I love my dog more than anything in this world but i also have a great respect for the physical power she has and I don't want to make a mistake that is going to cost either of us our life. I'd like your thoughts and also to know if anyone knows any good trainers in the Washington DC area who may be able to help me get through this period.

Thanks so much for your help!!

Danielle

OH I also want everyone to know that I have been a very responsible dog owner and would not want people to think otherwise. I am horrified when i hear stories like the death of the little girl in LA. My girl is socialized and has spent all of her life around lots of other people and situations. I have always believed that I would not own such a fabulous breed and not respect their power and size the way one should...the way so many irresponsible owners don't. The night that Parris bit my friend I had placed her in her kennel once there were too many people at my house - more because I didn't want her to try and eat the ping pong balls than for any other reason. The friend who was bitten was ironically the one who went and let her out of her kennel. I should have put my foot down as her owner and not allowed that to happen - hindsight is a terrible teacher. And I have been sickened ever since to think that this incident in any way added to the ridiclous misconcepion that Rotties are somehow viscious by nature - I have worked hard to rebuff that myth for the last 5 years. I am still working to do so which is why I need your help. Anyway, I wanted to say that. Thanks for reading.

[Bruce Lanthier]

What does the person that was bitten have to say about this?

[parrisopiglet]

She actually had a Rottie in college so she wasn't frightened by the breed itself. She said and I quote "things happen, I should have backed up when she growled." Also when someone mentioned how bad the wound was she said "this was a nip - if the dog had been attacking me aggrressively, I might not have a face"

As it was, Parris turned her head around and grabbed her face and then immediately let go - she didn't even have her body turned toward the girl who was bitten. my friend has a good attitude and we're still friends. She only did the paper work that was required involving shot records, other than that no charges are going to be filed. She knows it was an accident.

[Burnsway]

Originally Posted by parrisopiglet

I have had my baby girl for 5 years now and have always taken dominance issues very seriously, particularly because I have a naturally VERY ALPHA bitch on my hands. 3 weeks ago she bit one of my friends in the face- 38 stitches worth. .

"this was a nip - if the dog had been attacking me aggrressively, I might not have a face"

38 stitches is NOT a nip nor is it an "ACCIDENT" And she is not a "BABY"!

She is a 5 year old dog that has decided she can use her teeth at free will. You have to decide if you are willing to live with that responsibility.

[parrisopiglet]

I certainly didn't mean to imply that she is literally a baby and yes it was a nip in the since that it was not a full on attack - had Carrie (who was bitten) not jerked her face back as a natural reaction - the rip would not have happened. 38 stitches are also very tight stitches done by a plastic surgeon to minimize the scarring.

I am asking for advice here from people who are knowledgeable - i understand that I have to make some determinations about what I can and cannot live with - but I also do not think that i should make that decision before working through the behavioral issue. I would never give up on my dog that quickly - and not matter how old she is she will always be my baby. I do not treat her like a furry kid, I know better than that but i do love her as if she were my own family and I think most people understand what I mean by that.

[parrisopiglet]

Originally Posted by Burnsway

38 stitches is NOT a nip nor is it an "ACCIDENT" And she is not a "BABY"!

Why is this not an accident? An overly aggressive human grabs the dog from behind and ignores the dog when growled at...then continues to grab the dog...It's not as if my dog could slap her and tell her to back off. I realize what you are saying, I truly do but I hope I explained the situation well enough for it not to seem that my dog just decided to go wacko one night for no reason whatsoever.

[Burnsway]

Originally Posted by parrisopiglet

Why is this not an accident? An overly aggressive human grabs the dog from behind and ignores the dog when growled at...then continues to grab the dog...It's not as if my dog could slap her and tell her to back off. .

The dog could have ran off. The dog may have had a reason in her mind to bite a human that wouldn't let her go, but it was no accident. An accident is getting a pinky nipped during tug a rope play.....not 38 stitches in the face.

I will admit this may have been a provoked bite but it was no accident. A dog usually knows exactly where his/her teeth are going.

[Judi W]

It is very common to look for reasons to excuse a dog for biting, however your dog did have another option - that of not biting. She might not have liked the way she was being handled, but she was not being injured or attacked. She knew this person was not a burgler or murder rapist. She knew exactly what she was doing. She did not like what she considered an insult and used her teeth to enforce that.

I suspect that she felt this worked so well for her that she is expanding her power to include you and letting you know that she doesn't intend to accept anything she doesn't like from you as well which is why she issued her bit of a threat to you. You will be wise to pay attention because she has proven she means it. Unfortunately this type of incident rather proves that what you label a myth is not myth.

You are quite fortunate that the person who was bitten accepts some responsibility. Not all guests would be so understanding. I suggest that you handle her carefully as she could indeed decide to bite you next time you displease her. Up your formal obedience, but consider working her in a muzzle. Also, accept that she is not a good dog for public interaction. However she has been for the past 5 years, she is no longer safe.

[parrisopiglet]

Did I ruin my dog somehow i wonder - I feel like I've let her down now. I am not sure anyone can imagine how I feel right now. I am looking at her laying over and looking up at me with those big brown eyes and I jsut ache. I always imagined the day that she might pass would be one of the worst days of my life, I never in a million years imagined that things would turn out this way. You are all so right that she could have responded another way and maybe I am simply trying to find some other reason that it happened. It's just very difficult to think that she is no longer safe. I always considered her my best friend and my own protector - I never could have imagined having to feel even the least bit afraid of what may happen. I am doing as you have suggested and I appreciate what everyone has posted - thank you for taking the time to respond. I suppose I was hoping for better news.

[TerrierMan]

Originally Posted by Judi W

It is very common to look for reasons to excuse a dog for biting, however your dog did have another option - that of not biting. She might not have liked the way she was being handled, but she was not being injured or attacked. She knew this person was not a burgler or murder rapist. She knew exactly what she was doing. She did not like what she considered an insult and used her teeth to enforce that.

I suspect that she felt this worked so well for her that she is expanding her power to include you and letting you know that she doesn't intend to accept anything she doesn't like from you as well which is why she issued her bit of a threat to you. You will be wise to pay attention because she has proven she means it. Unfortunately this type of incident rather proves that what you label a myth is not myth.

You are quite fortunate that the person who was bitten accepts some responsibility. Not all guests would be so understanding. I suggest that you handle her carefully as she could indeed decide to bite you next time you displease her. Up your formal obedience, but consider working her in a muzzle. Also, accept that she is not a good dog for public interaction. However she has been for the past 5 years, she is no longer safe.

Look, I am not the most knowledgable guy in the world when it comes to Rotts, but what JudiW says here makes alot of sense. Your dog could become a big financial liability in the future if she decides to use her teeth in that manner again, especially if it is a child so proceed with utmost caution. I personally could never live with a dog once it has done something that severe!

[excellrott]

Even though you may have to watch her public interaction and not let people near enough for this sort of accident to happen again, you must also let the dog know that you personally are ALWAYS exempt from this behavior. If I was not going to give my dog up, I would make sure she knew in a SEVERE meeting of the minds that it is not acceptable, if you even suspect she is changing her attitude about her teeth.
The one and only time I was growled at by my 95lb female, she got a lesson in manners she will never forget!!

[RottieMom51503]

I'm sorry I don't mean to sound nasty but where were you when all of this happened? Why were you allowing your drunk friends to hug your dog (I know a lot of dogs that don't appreicate this from there own family members). I believe I have read before that hugging is considered a form of dominace. So if I understand what I have read correctly your friend basically came to your house (not hers) and told your dog where she stands in the pack. It would be like your friend coming to your house and telling you how to run your household, it wouldn't fly very well. I don't want anyone to think I am excusing the dog for biting but I can understand why she did it and (again I'm sorry I don't mean to be flaming you) but I think some of the responsibility falls on you her owner. Where your dog is and who is doing what to your dog is your responsibility at all times. It is your job to protect that dog and it is job to ensure safety of others when they are around your dog. You should of intervened when your friend hugged the dog and especially when she growled. I think when you are drunk and acting sloppy it confuses the dog as they are not used to that type of action. This is why I don't allow my friends over when they are drinking. My house is not a bar.

[brunie's mom]

I would also suggest you have her spayed.
Is there a reason that you have kept her intact???

Hormones or some other medical problem may also be a factor in this attack. I would have her spayed and have a full thyroid panel done....and get her back into classes.
She is not a BABY .....she is a DOG. When I hear of people calling their dogs "baby"....a big red flag starts waving for me. It tells me she is being treated like a human.

Gina

[Lorrie]

Hi parrisopiglet - sorry about the circumstances that bring you to the forums.

I was wondering a couple things. You've had your dog 5 years now .. during that time have there been any other incidents of aggression .. either towards you or other people? What sort of relationship do you have with your dog ... be honest .. you say she is a very alpha bitch .. but does she accept you as her "leader" or do you live around her and exist on an "equal" playing field.

If this is truely a dominance issues (which it sound like it might be) it is completely "fixable" .. it isn't like fear aggression or other behavioral issues that are much harder to address. The only question is whether or not you have the "stuff" as an owner to make her believe you are the boss. This is something that is very difficult to determine via the written word .. to honestly assess a dog you need to see it, feel it, touch it. Many times we go to a behavioral consult expecting one thing from the description and find something completely opposite.

In my opinion your dogs choice to put teeth on skin was a very bad one .. should she die because of it .. that is a tough one .. but I am inclined to say no at this point. This isn't a dog that we are assessing for rescue or rehoming .. it is a dog that has been in a solid home for 5 years and with someone willing to work with her dog. We work with one of the best Behaviorists in Ontario and 75% of her business is from just this type of senario and almost always AFTER a bite has occured.

If this is the first occurance of aggression and you are willing to work with the dog I think she deserves the chance. As long as you are willing to accept the responsibility that comes along with the knowledge that your dog WILL bite. You can not let this happen again .. it is her life at stake.

Please listen to brunie's mom and have her spayed not only for this reason but for her health down the road.

[Platzz]

They DOG made a bad decission to bite a Drunk that grapped her from behind and was bear hungger her, while she was in heat???

Please stop!