Growled and jumped at very good friend?!

[bolt94]

In the last three weeks, since the bite, I have been working with Hunter every single day of the week, two and three sessions per evening. Unfortunately, my DB hasn't been home much as he has a side business that he runs. Either way, I've noticed a HUGE change in Hunter's attitude and we are getting along wonderfully. He listens to me and does what I ask on first command. He's been a shining star, in my eyes, during OB classes and has just been an overall joy to have around. It's extremely rewarding to actually see AND have people notice the change in him, which brings me to a question I have.

Last night Hunter and I took a ride out to see "daddy" at his shop. When we arrived, DB was eating KFC (YUCK) and Hunter took a seat next to him, on his right. Another friend of ours, whom Hunter has seen and interacted with a million times (at our house only) came up and was talking to us. I'm not sure if our friend made eye contact with Hunter or what but next thing I knew, Hunter growled and then jumped up and grabbed ahold of the (long) sleeve of our friend's shirt. When I said "no," he immediately let go. I stood, in shock, w/ my hands on my hips looking at the dog. Brian continued on w/ his conversation, Hunter growled and jumped up again, grabbing his sleeve. This time, I grabbed Hunter by the scruff, told him to knock it off and held him until his body went limp. He even growled a little at me.

I'm in absolute shock because Brian (our friend) IS NOT a stranger. And, on our way home, we (dog and I) met a friend for ice cream where he down/stayed like a PERFECT gentleman and accepted pets from a little girl (with my approval of course).

Could he be somewhat apprehensive around men? We don't know what type of life he had before finding us.

I have very little dog behavior experience... ok, I have NO dog behavior experience but I thought perhaps Hunter was guarding "the chicken" that he thought was his even though DB never even gave him a piece. I'm at a loss for why he would behave like this with someone he's been around since we adopted him back in October.

He had blood taken on Monday for the 6-panel thyroid test -- we're waiting on the results (how long do the results usually take?). Our vet said that he's in good health and the only problem she sees is a little less range of motion in his right hip. She gave us glucosamin(sp) for that and he's currently taking one, twice daily w/ two teaspoons of salmon oil mixed in w/ his kibble.

Anyone have ANY idea why Hunter would all of a sudden see Brian as a possible threat? Or was he just pushing his weight around?

[Sargeant_C]

I would be guessing that he is pushing his weight.
Also I would not be trusting this dog. Muzzle him or do not take him until all training is complete and you know how to read him better.

[2rotties2luv]

Originally Posted by bolt94

I'm in absolute shock because Brian (our friend) IS NOT a stranger. And, on our way home, we (dog and I) met a friend for ice cream where he down/stayed like a PERFECT gentleman and accepted pets from a little girl (with my approval of course).

I'll defer to the experts here to advise you on Hunter's behavior, but I do have one comment:

Since his behavior has been unpredictable and involves lunging and biting - I would NOT - UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES - allow him near a child or allow a child to pet him. The incident where he lunged and grabbed your friend's sleeve could have been a disaster had it been a child.

[Judi W]

I would suggest that at this point, what is much more important than the "why" is that you did not and do not have sufficient control of this dog. That he aggressed against the friend who was no threat (nor can we excuse it on his being excited like was done when he bit before) and to have so little understanding that he was allowed a second chance to repeat boggles my mind. What scares the heck out of me is that you would allow him access to the public and even go so far as to permit a child to be in his reach let alone pet him immediately after he has demonstrated his aggression. Whatever were you thinking? Are you insured for dog bites to the degree of extensive plastic surgery and punitive damages are of no concern? How about your conscience? The very least action you should take is to make sure this dog is muzzled at any time he is around other people.

[bolt94]

Obviously I had a mental lapse in judgement. Thankfully, no one was injured.

My question is HOW do I gain control when it's either been lost or was never there to begin with?? Like I stated earlier, I've been working him regularly for the last three weeks and he's shown a great deal of improvement. I really thought we were making progress. But, I've clearly been living in fantasy land.

Are continued OB classes and constant work at home the answer? I understand that he cannot go out in public without a muzzle. But, I would like some suggestions on how to deal with these random aggressive (is it aggression?) outbursts? I'm ready, willing and able to listen and heed the advice given. I just don't know where to start.

[SonnyRott]

When you mentioned a child was able to pet him right after the incident, and he was allowed in another social setting, it made me gasp. YIKES!!!

This dog should have been carted home immediately the first time he lunged at your friend. He is just too unpredictable at this point for social interaction outside the family (and he may always be).

I know you are trying to do the right thing (and you are with upping his training)...but it is almost going along the lines of experimentation (with the public) when he is allowed these greetings. PHEW! You are sooooo fortunate as it could have been much, much worse.

[damp]

I would watch that dog like a hawk. When you give a correction for a BITE it’s not done standing with you hands on the hips and telling him "NO…bad boy!!!" And obviously your dog doesn’t get the message at ALL.

I am more convinced this dog has taken over control (than acting out of fear) He has no respect for you/your commands.

So yes, obedience is the only way to save him, but it’s not a job for owners with

NO dog behavior experience

without a good trainer.

[brunie's mom]

This dog may never be able to mingle with the public, friends,etc. Not sure why you want a reason or need to analyze this.

He has proven to you already that he can lunge and bite...and all of the training sessions in the world may never change this.

It could be his genetics, his poor breeding his makeup, his lousy beginning...who knows???

I have a rescue girl that is unpredictable...she is fine with woman, but afraid of men and kids irritate her...she has never bitten anyone....but if push came to shove...I'm sure she could.
We have had her for 5 years, she is trained perfectly....but I would still not trust her.

If you want to take your dog out and about, I suggest a muzzle. At home with just you and your mate around you can just make sure that you do not set him up to fail.
Please protect him and protect the public. These are very strong, big dogs that can do alot of damage quickly...and while your trying to figure out "why?"...he may tear the face off of a kid.

Gina

[Sargeant_C]

Training will help. It will help you learn how to watch for the signs. Sarge is not the friendliest dog and I know in public I muzzle him. In the house he is fine.
I have learned a lot more from a one on one trainer then I have in groups. You have to learn how to read the signs and control the situations before he does.

For example.. A guy on a bike may ride by.. I notice the bike and I place Sarge in a position to face me and to pay strict attention to me. Attention exercises are a must. If you do not have that forget it. Also if I see a lot of children coming my way.. I turn around and I am way ahead of them and I get out of that area. I have to be on my toes 24/7 with him.
It will get better, with time and training..but how much are you willing to put into it.

[debbiej]

reading your post, and the good answers you have recieved, I feel like I should write a little about how I approached having a rottie that I didn't know the history on. I offer this not because I'm an expert but because I gave a lot of thought to the risks involved before even taking my dogs out. they are fast and strong and I feel very responsible for allowing my dogs to be in a situation where even harmless behavior could be misinterpreted. Obedience training may not be enough. yes, the dog needs to have a solid sit and stay. at this point, recall isn't an issue since he should never be off lead. Treat every single situation that may arise as a possible test he can fail. an example of this would be--walking your dog in a park, you see a group of people. you sit your dog. you scan for activity, you notice everyone there, loose dogs? unruly children? plan the route that you can take that will allow your dog to pass without incident. what direction to approach from? I took my dog to a park where there was a lot of activity when I first got her. She was just wild and horrible acting. she barked and lunged at strangers, I didn't trust her around children. now she is calm, loves children and will sit quietly and watch strangers and strange activites. she was very under socialized before I got her, but is now very predictable and well behaved.
my boy is totally fearless, friendly was totally untrained and needs a very strong hand. I got help from a trainer with several one on one sessions. they helped me understand how to understand my dog's intent way before it was evident. before the lessons, I missed so much, and I still have a long way to go. Remember dogs are not polite by nature, and often when we think we understand our dog, we need to realize dogs do not have the same thought processes we have. I saw a cartoon (that wasn't funny) that showed a big dog and a little girl looking at each other. in the thought balloon over the head of the girl was a teddy bear. In the balloon over the dogs head was a rabbit running. Like others have said, your dog isn't seeing you as his master. If so, he would not react without looking to you first.
this takes time, but for the reputation of the breed and the safety of Hunter, please be much much more cautious and learn how to be a very dominant owner.

[bolt94]

Originally Posted by Sargeant_C

...but how much are you willing to put into it.

I made a promise to the dog AND myself that I would/will do whatever I can to give him the best possible life. I won't give up now. Especially, since, believe it or not, he's come a long way.

If he can't be out in public without a muzzle, then a muzzle it is.

I will also be looking to our trainer for a few one on one sessions so that perhaps I can begin to understand him a little more.

I just want to thank each and every one of you who responded for telling like it is. I know I for one need that (more often than not, lately). Especially when it comes to a big, powerful breed like the Rottweiler.

Thanks again!

[Judi W]

Well, we'd sure rather yell at you here on the forum than to see another community added to the list of those who ban the breed. Please keep in mind, that all is not fine and dandy at home either as he did a serious bite to your husband, and in this most recent episode threatened you for interferring with him.

[Tank's Grandma]

He even growled a little at me.

To me, this statement speaks volumes ....bad enough he growled and jumped at the friend.....but if one of my dogs even thinks about growling at me...he's going to see god...
like debbie said

learn how to be a very dominant owner.

and it sounds like you're willing to do the work....

[groupieindenial]

I get the feeling this dog may have done some shady PP work in his past. He didn't "attack" but went for the guys sleeve, you said "NO" and he out, and then decided to go for it again! Think back, was there a certain gesture this man did when it happened? Did he position his forearm in front of him?

I don't think it is bad to analyze and overanalyze the situation. I think if you understand why your dog did something, you'll be better armed in dealing with the issue effectively.

[bolt94]

Originally Posted by groupieindenial

I get the feeling this dog may have done some shady PP work in his past. He didn't "attack" but went for the guys sleeve, you said "NO" and he out, and then decided to go for it again! Think back, was there a certain gesture this man did when it happened? Did he position his forearm in front of him?

I don't think it is bad to analyze and overanalyze the situation. I think if you understand why your dog did something, you'll be better armed in dealing with the issue effectively.

I honestly don't remember if there were any hand gestures. Brian had been sitting in a chair and Brian called Hunter to him. We walked over there (Hunter is ALWAYS on lead when we're anywhere but in the backyard) and Hunter sat (must sit to be pet). Brian was petting and talking to him. Once Brian stopped petting him, Hunter got up and we walked back across the room to where DB was eating his dinner. Hunter sat and within about 30 seconds, Brian had gotten up from his chair and walked over to talk to us. Within another 30 seconds, Brian raised his arm (not above is head in a threatening way but maybe to waist height) and that's when Hunter growled and jumped at the sleeve. I believe the second time it happened, Brian may have done it to see if he'd do it again... and he did. That's when I grabbed him. And, believe me, we didn't stick around to see what else he'd do. I marched his sassy rear right out to the truck and we left without saying a word!

I am by no means a pushover with humans, therefore, I WILL NOT tolerate it from my dog. However, I find that I'm somewhat apprehensive to offer a CTJ (I'm guessing his actions last night would have warranted one?!) for fear that I may do it incorrectly and have it backfire (i.e., be inaffective or worse).

Again, I am ready, willing and able!

Is Culture Clash a book I should invest in? Will it help me get started on the right path to understanding dogs/dog behavior? If not, other suggestions?