Abused Dogs Vs. Weak Nerved Dogs

[TrishB]

We've often had threads where a supposed 'abused' dog is being referenced. The truth of the matter is that 99% of the times, the owners have no idea of the past treatment of said dog. Only that they behave as if they've been abused, so they must have been.

This assumption is incorrect. A dog with a solid temperament can rebound from practically any situation. Take the stories of those dogs who have been found in abusive situations and still wag their tails and lick the authorities removing them from their past homes. A dog with a correct temperament can assess a situation and decide that this situation does not call for aggression.

A weak nerved dog cannot make this decision. Everything is interpreted as a threat. They'll act aggressively due to the 'I'll get you before you get me' mentality. Or, they'll cower from a friendly approach because they cannot deal with the situation before them - not because there ever was or is, a threat.

I had a rescue that was weak nerved. I do not know what sort of treatment she had received before I got her - only that she had had several homes which she ran away from and had a litter of pups at some point in her young life. She was fearful of new people, men, loud noises and thunderstorms. She had separation anxiety to the point where she injured herself (cut pads and a broken tooth). A simple raise of the voice was enough to make her crumble and 'disengage' - laying down and shaking.

This is not an abused dog - this is a weak nerved dog. Now to be fair - she could have been abused, but I highly doubt that she had been in reality.

If a person doesn't have leadership skills, you don't make them a manager. If they're quiet and reserved, you don't make them a public speaker. If they're shy, you don't make them a host.

If your dog isn't confident, you don't put them into roles where they need to be. If your dog doesn't assess situations accurately (i.e. assuming a need for aggression where there isn't any), then don't allow them to make decisions.

So unless you KNOW (i.e. were told by authorities) that the dog was seized due to abuse, don't assume that they were. Instead, assess the temperament that you have been given and work with it. Offering them explanations and excuses isn't going to help anyone. This is a dog and needs to be put into the role that they can handle and do successfully.

Aggression or weak nerves are not interchangeable with or equal to abuse.

[Judi W]

Well written Trish. Nice job and thank you.

[debbiej]

this subject is very intersting to me. watching the behavior of my two dogs in different situations I have been caused to wonder about how intelligence and experience figure in. Hilda was pretty fearful when she came to us, but learned that new things were nothing to be afraid of. but compared to Boris I would say she was far more weak nerved. but now I would say she is pretty confident, in fact not much seems to give her pause (at least in the course of day to day life) but she is still is more cautious and it appears that she almost thinks things through before acting. Boris came to us with a "bring it on" attitude. anything was to be investigated, nothing made him hesitate. always friendly, but very bold. he too is smart, but in a much more confident manner. I'm sure of the two dogs, he had the tougher life before coming to us.

[TrishB]

And that's a good gague - how they react in new situations. A dog with a 'wait and see' attitude isn't necessarily weak (in fact it's a trait of our breed). I would suggest that they have different types of nerve / temperament. But neither is weak.

A 'weak' nerved dog would have a very hard time adjusting to a new sitaution. Their reactions are often exhaggerated (aggression, bolting, hiding, etc.) and extreme.

If you read through a description of a Temperament Test http://www.atts.org/testdesc.html you'll see that the dog can be startled. Like a "Whoa! What the heck was that?" but then must recover and show interest "Oh, that's all it was."

At one TT, a woman had a mixed breed dog. Gun shots (bang, pause, bang, bang). The dog startled and bolted to the end of the leash and continued to dart around. The dog did this for a full 20 seconds AFTER the shots. There was no recovery - only flight response. An extreme reaction where it wasn't warranted. That dog failed - weak temperament. She had mentioned she had the dog since it was a pup, so he wasn't abused.

[miccmill]

Wonderful post Trish.
Thank you

[majicka]

Great post..

and I have to agree with this..My boy Bruno was definitly abused and neglected (per the shelter, he was confiscated). No one would have ever guessed. Not a day in his life did his previous situation affect him. He was one of the happiest and most confident dogs I had ever met.

Happy on the other hand who was raised by a byb (she treated them fairly well) and later by a rescue in her home (also treated well) is slightly weak nerved. He's very cautious. As he gets older (he's 10 mos old) his confidence is growing and I see changes in him every day.

[LORHEL]

I had a fear biter. We got him from a BYB. He was never abused, however, because of his bad breeding, bad puppy experience, and our lack of how to help him, there were times he would act as though he had been abused.

We gave him nothing but love and the only discipline was a sharp word NO etc... but bathtime was a nightmare, he growled, snarled, acted though we were killing him. He had to be muzzled. Toenail trimming was the same. This is why temperament is of the utmost importance. Things never got better with him, and it hurt us terribly to see him act like that. He was not mentally stable, and the end result was heartbreaking.

So here you have a dog, that was treated as best as possible, but yet could not overcome his demons. I have seen many abused dogs on the TV shows, that have had horrible lives, yet come out to greet the officers with nothing more than someone happy to see them.

Temperament and nerves are EVERYTHING.

[BostonRott]

Wonderful topic Trish!!!!

A weak nerved dog is a scary dog, for you never quite know what will set them off or how they'll react to it. Dog with weak nerve are very fast to stress, and that can come out not only as aggression, but also as avoidance of work (zoomies/sniffing and ignoring the handler at training), or trying to insanely be everyone's best friend.

This, in my opinion, is something that breeders need to work hard to avoid, and if they do have a short-nerved pup, to be VERY careful where they place it, and be sure that the new home understands it, and all the extra work that goes along with it.

[Judi W]

This is why you almost always see me ask "do you know first hand that this dog was abused" when someone talks about their fearful, timid rescue having been abused. I ask this of students as well as here on the forum. Too often it is something assumed because of the dog's behavior and it is quite untrue. I have to make a sad laugh about a woman in our club who has shorthairs who are all trembling on the edge of fear biting. Never seen a one that didn't have its tail touching its belly. The reason I am so amazed is that she has had the same temperament for 20 years. Likes it so much she just keeps breeding more of them. She claims they are great hunters, but you'd have to prove it to me. (I don't want to find out enough to go to one of their hunts) Poor poor dogs.

I have also worked with many a rescue (some street dogs) that is not the least bit fearful and is thrilled to be in a new environment and a delight to their new owners. These dogs reward their owners daily. Weak-nerved dogs are often not only a hazard (not all are as some chose flee over fight), but they are certainly not fun to live with and more important - they do not live in a happy world. The post I put here not too long ago by Dr. Miliani talks about the psyic pain these dogs endure and wonders why people who would put down a dog experiencing unfixable physical pain do not extend the same release to dogs experiencing emotion and mental pain.

[SABELLESMOM]

Wonderful post! Weak nerved dogs can be very scary. My friend had a gorgeous Catahula (Louisiana Catahula Leopard Dog...herding cattle) she got from a so called rescue. Nails? He had to be anesthetised! Fine in a crate one night, not a sound. Then shredding his pads almost trying to escape another. Ate an entire chicken wing pizza one night, counter surfing. There was no stopping him. It was as if he was posessed.

In between all this he showed himself to be fairly intellegent. She started some rudimentary agility and clicker training. She did contact a behaviorist over the pad shredding and pizza incident. Things got more serious.

He was so unstable he'd be enjoying a pat, with warm loving blue eyes gazing, the bite the very hand three seconds later. Then he went berzerk in her kitchen. Broke nearly every dish in the house. No idea what if anything set him off, either. DH was getting kids ready for bed so he was in another room.

He was mercifully released from his demons the next morning, with my friend holding him one last time.

[BostonRott]

That's not what I'd describe as a weak nerved dog, but a dog with something mis-wired.

A weak nerved dog is the one who is suspicious of everyone they meet on the street, more so than is warranted. A weak nerved dog spooks easily in strange surroundings, is often quite soft/submissive, but will put on a front if they've learned it works.

They are stable in their household, stable with those they know and in places they know. They don't bite for no reason, but instead they over-react to perceived threats, and they do typically go through the entire display ritual.....not always, but usually.

[SABELLESMOM]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

That's not what I'd describe as a weak nerved dog, but a dog with something mis-wired.

I suppose you're probably right. I just jumped at the first printed explaination that even came close. Sometimes he was shy and shaky in a new surrounding and with some new people. But, in hindsight, he took to other things/people right away. Perhaps he was more truthfully released from his demons than most.

[BostonRott]

Sounds like he was, and I'm glad that someone had the courage to do what was best for him, and for the world. Kudos to them, it's never easy!

[miccmill]

I've read every word of this thread with great interest, respect and admiration. Most of the posters responding to this thread were here to teach me about owning a weak nerved dog and for that I'll be forever grateful.
I can't argue that this dog should have been saved at all costs and she very likely would not have been adopted out of the Humane Society Shelter had we sent her there. She wasn't a very likable puppy at first glance.

That said, here she is, in our home. This girl has grown on us and become a member of the family. No, she'll never have a regular "dog" life but as Gretchen pointed out, she'll be stable in situations she comfortable with. The list of those situations is not so short that she can't have quality of life. She'll never be an embassador for this breed either but as long as she's alive, she'll never draw additional negative attention for the breed either. That will be my job.

In short, thank you to all the breeders and committed Rottweiler owners on this site for telling it like it is and helping to educate many other Rottweiler owners.

[LORHEL]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

That's not what I'd describe as a weak nerved dog, but a dog with something mis-wired.

A weak nerved dog is the one who is suspicious of everyone they meet on the street, more so than is warranted. A weak nerved dog spooks easily in strange surroundings, is often quite soft/submissive, but will put on a front if they've learned it works.

They are stable in their household, stable with those they know and in places they know. They don't bite for no reason, but instead they over-react to perceived threats, and they do typically go through the entire display ritual.....not always, but usually.

**********************
This was exactly how our male BYB puppy was, he had a circle of friends, who he never had to be muzzled around, he loved them dearly. But trying to introduce someone NEW, no matter male, female, how friendly, forget it.

There would be warning signs, such as posturing, mostly growling, over reacting to the smallest situations.