Why do they start guarding objects?

[Cassie's Mom]

I had a problem arise with my 3 month old mix. He has started being aggressive towards only me when he has something he doesn't want to give up. My other dogs have no aggression what so ever. The puppy, however, has started growling and snapping at me when I try to take something away from him but will let my husband reach right in there and take it. It might be a rawhide, a kong, or something else. Now, when I feed him, I stick my fingers in his bowl and pet him, take his food up and put it back down and there isn't any problem at all. I'm doing all the same things with him that I did with my female Rottie but he has isn't turning out the same way. I have ordered some books on canine behavior and aggression solutions but haven't received them yet. I want some feed back from anyone out there who may have had a similiar problem and what they did to overcome it. Let me add one thing, I have been carrying some dog bones with me. When I approach him I can tell by the look on his face that he is going to growl. I pull out a dog bone and hold it out, he will drop the object he is being possessive with and come and sit and let me give him the dog bone. Then I reach over and pick up the object. Once I have the object, he turns back into the loving little puppy, wagging his tail and licking me all over. Where am I going wrong with him?

[Carina43]

Cassie's Mom...My first Rottie was very dominant and I had to work hard to get him in line. He was my first one, though I've had dogs my whole life. He turned out beautifully...anyhow I had the exact same issue with him. At the time, I had just read the Monks of New Skete book (How to be Your Dog's Best Friend.) I don't belive in physical correction (besides a leash tug) for any reason EXCEPT for growling or aggression towards me. I will absolutely not tolerate that from any dog.

Here's what I did. It worked with Ajax. When he was eating or chewing on something, I'd go up to him, say his name, and take it. He would growl & snap and BOOM he was on his back with me shaking him and "growling" right into his face. (This is from the Monk's book...called Alpha rollover or something. Many people disagree with their methods.) When he settled down & looked contrite, I'd let him go back to what he was chewing. I would then repeat the behaviour. Didn't take long!

This sounds a little draconian & I wouldn't do this with every dog...but Ajax was extremely "hard." The message was, I can take ANYTHING from you, whenever I want, and you had better give it up nicely! I figure that aggression towards the owner is not the place for positive reinforcement or happy talk.

I didn't "tease" him with this; I didn't want him to become distrustful or on guard when he was eating or chewing. I just did it often enough until he got the message (didn't take long) and as he got older I would take something from him once in a great while just to remind him!

A friend who had a Rottie pup had the same issue with her girl. She asked me for advice, because her pup had bitten her a couple of times & she was getting scared of her own dog! I demonstrated this method on her pup, and helped her with some training tips. Funny thing..."Casey" become very attached to me...she was a dog who really needed some direction! My friend has since taken control & Casey is a wonderful young dog.

Anyhow, that's MHO. I'll repeat, the only time I EVER use a "forceful" correction is if the dog is threatening me. I will not permit that in any dog in my house...my own or rescue/fosters.

[Judi W]

If you want to know why this is happening, you must look back and see what happened (from the dog's perspective) the very first time. If you were shocked and stepped back instead of giving him H***** then you can imagine he has decided this is a pretty neat thing and will repeat it as long as it works for him. One good correction that puts the fear of god in him is worth a million nagging ones. Carina is correct also, in that you should not become a tease and harrass the pup. I will always reward a pup for "bringing" me stuff. I don't think luring the dog away from its treasure however is going to solve your problem. One day he's going to have something he prizes more than your cookie. Where will you be then? Especially if it is something he is not supposed to have?

Although I am not a fan of the rollover, it is acceptable for a pup(under 4 months) however, I believe taking the collar and giving a serious yelling at usually will suffice. Trying the rollover on an older dog can get you in serious trouble. Job said before he died that he regretted ever putting that in his book as he discovered it did get the novice in some trouble.

Remember, they don't get any younger and they don't get any smaller.

[German Vanegas]

Originally posted by Judi W:
<STRONG>If you want to know why this is happening, you must look back and see what happened (from the dog's perspective) the very first time. If you were shocked and stepped back instead of giving him H***** then you can imagine he has decided this is a pretty neat thing and will repeat it as long as it works for him. One good correction that puts the fear of god in him is worth a million nagging ones. Carina is correct also, in that you should not become a tease and harrass the pup. I will always reward a pup for "bringing" me stuff. I don't think luring the dog away from its treasure however is going to solve your problem. One day he's going to have something he prizes more than your cookie. Where will you be then? Especially if it is something he is not supposed to have?...

...Remember, they don't get any younger and they don't get any smaller.</STRONG>

I concur. You are in perfect time to correct such dominant behavior on your puppy.

[Carina43]

[quote]Originally posted by Judi W:
[QB]If you want to know why this is happening, you must look back and see what happened (from the dog's perspective) the very first time. [QUOTE}

Hehe..My initial reaction to the OP title was "Because he can."

As to the rollover technique...I've used it twice since 1986 (apart from with Ajax.)...Once on my friend's dog, & once on a foster I had for a while. I don't consider myself a novice dog owner; though I'm not a "pro" either. But I've always had dogs; & they have always been well-trained. The rollover thing is something I would only use on very pissy dogs, though.

[Judi W]

:D

[southerncomfort]

I too read and enjoyed the Monk's book, they certainly have a unique approach in some area with dog training. When Zeus was 3-4 months old we used the "alpha rollover" and it worked wonders. I'd say give it a try and at the very least he will have no issues with whos boss.

[Judi W]

I have attended two of Job's seminars. One of the primary things however, is the early imprinting done with puppies even before their eyes are opened and continued on through puppyhood. This is why the choice of breeder is so very important and why it is important to continue a good breeder's work.

[German Vanegas]

I wouldn't use the "alpha rollover" technique on a strong dominant dog older than 7 or 8 months. It can be quite risky. People have been bitten in the face badly attempting this technique.

[Judi W]

Originally posted by German Vanegas:
<STRONG>I wouldn't use the "alpha rollover" technique on a strong dominant dog older than 7 or 8 months. It can be quite risky. People have been bitten in the face badly attempting this technique.</STRONG>

Yep, and I place it even younger. An adolescent is starting to understand its strength, and some will say "when I am just a bit older and stronger, I won't have to take this crap".....

This idea was patterned with the idea that it is how dogs fight. Please note: "fight". In a dog fight the stronger and more determined one wins. Humans are not equipped to get into a dog fight lacking teeth useful in such an endeavor. Hence the danger German mentions. Best you assert your control and dominance as a human rather than pretending to be a dog. (the dog knows better) ;)

[Carina43]

Originally posted by Judi W:
<STRONG>

This idea was patterned with the idea that it is how dogs fight. Please note: "fight". In a dog fight the stronger and more determined one wins. Humans are not equipped to get into a dog fight lacking teeth useful in such an endeavor. Hence the danger German mentions. Best you assert your control and dominance as a human rather than pretending to be a dog. (the dog knows better) ;)</STRONG>

Judi, what you & German say make sense! IIRC, there's a photo in the book of one of the handlers demonstrating the rollover on an adult GSD. Now that I think of it, that could be a pretty risky move.

[Judi W]

Well, a dog that already defers to you isn't going to have you for lunch for doing that shakedown or rollover. (doesn't need one either) One that does not, can for sure take a person. Also, if the handler (and I use the term loosely) doesn't know when to stop, the dog could very sincerely believe it is fighting for its life. I don't believe this is an intelligent approach to dog training.

[royalarrival]

What do you guys think of dominant down. Where you put the dog down on it's side with the forearm on the neck/shoulder area (Not sufficating just enough to keep the dog down) and the other arm on the hind quarters. I used this technique from the get go with all my pups. Once they got use to being down I would rub all over the body for them to get use to touch everywhere. I even play with the mouth/tongue for them to get use to be handled in that area. When the show the attempt to dominate me I put them in dominant down to remind them how is boss. It doesn't hurt them in any way, plus with your forearm at the neck area it controls the movement of the head to keep them away if they attempt to bite. Of course, if they attempt to bite to scold them that that's not acceptable.

Diane

P.S. I used this technique on a dominanting Lab that didn't respect me when leading (I was 4 months pregnant). He bolted on me when I open the door to take him for a walk. If it wasn't for the screen door kindly staying in place He would have dragged me around. (he was 120 pounds...yes young and overweight). I put him in dominant down and never had a problem since.

[ June 18, 2001: Message edited by: royalarrival ]

[Goose's Guardian]

Originally posted by German Vanegas:
<STRONG>I wouldn't use the "alpha rollover" technique on a strong dominant dog older than 7 or 8 months. It can be quite risky. People have been bitten in the face badly attempting this technique.</STRONG>

My puppy is dominant and hard. He never responded well to the rollovers . . . it would just escalate the situation. He just gets VERY worked up with any physical form of disipline.

I went with the firm collar grab and a loud "NO!" and that has worked well. He knows I mean business whenever I yell. :D

[Judi W]

Diane,
As far as the lying the dog down, and doing all that stuff, I basically consider it absolutely harmless, many people do it and it makes them feel better and like they are doing something. I also consider it an artificial substitute for being in charge, but it is totally benign so stroke away. I am a believer that some meaningful obedience work is the best route to leadership. It is productive and positive with well-defined goals that have meaning to both dog and handler.

GG, - good choice ;)