Attacked another dog

[pogomisha]

I'm new to this board. I have a 3 year old spayed female rottie. We have taken her to basic obedience class. I am a 4H Dog Club leader for our county. I'm not experienced as a trainer but the only one who would do it and the kids wanted the club so I volunteered. We are relying on volunteers for training. My 9 year old dd takes our rottie to class and we usually pass the information on to others. At classes our dog behaves well. One day at our club meeting we had a new member and even though I went over the rules she ran past Glitter with her female spayed dog and Glitter, our rottie, nailed the other dog. She didn't hurt it just ruffled it's hair but I am disabled and others had to get her off. We started CGC classes that a volunteer offered to teach and we have been attending that and Glitter still does not like this other dog and we have to watch her because you can see her watching it. She finally started accepting this other dog and they got a puppy (male Sheltie) and one day she watched it running back and forth back and forth in a fenced in area of the dog park and when it came back she grabbed it by the back leg when it came too close to her. These are the only two dogs she has done this with. The mother of the 4H child thinks it might be because the dogs smell like her sheep. Could this be it or can anyone else help out here. What we have been doing to correct this is when my dd is in class with them when we see Glitter start watching them, she redirects her attention and makes her heel away from them or work them in anther way. Any ideas or suggestions as to what caused this or what we should do? Sorry this is so long. Thanks.

[Judi W]

I doubt it has anything to do with the other dog smelling like sheep. It very likely does have something to do with the dog running and Glitter thinking she can just do a quick grab if she wants to.

Actutally, a Rottweiler with limited experience and only basic obedience is not a dog I would put in the hands of a green jr or 4-H child. I too work with the 4-H kids now and then, but we try to see that none of them are working with dogs they cannot physically control and with d children particularly are encouraged to work with much older dogs that have much experience and training so that control is not such an issue and the child can feel more successful. We have many breeders that let these children work with their retired dogs which is just the ticket. The dogs are experienced and old hands at being in crowds, around all sorts of other dogs, following handler instructions and guite generous of spirit.

I would suggest that you consider another dog for this project before something much more serious happens. Glitter can be a fine family dog, but is just not experienced or settled enough for a child or a d child.

[AngelBunny]

Glitter isn't fooled by the supposed sheep smell--she's rushing and grabbing because she can: She's being handled by someone who's neither physically nor mentally strong enough to 1) stop her from exhibiting bad manners and 2) correct her for her bad manners.

[pogomisha]

First, it is me that is disabled not my dd. I wasn't when we first got Glitter (I had an accident) but my dd has always been her handler. I wanted to make sure that at all times my dd could handle her and make sure that Glitter knew that my dd was the Alpha. I am using dd to stand for dear daughter. She is now almost 10 and we have a regular trainer and the only time she has exhibited this behavior is with these two dogs. I should have explained this further but I felt I was taking up to much space before so I tried to shorten it. We have finished basic obedience and are working toward getting her off lead trained and our obedience trainer, who we go to classes with, thinks my dd is capable of controlling her and has given us things to do but I was just curious if you all thought it was the sheep factor. She has been to the dog park on lead with a halti on and has exhibited no aggressive tendency. She has had strange dogs run up to her on walks and has not exhibited any aggressive tendencies it is just with these two dogs. At our regular obedience classes she does not even pay any attention to the other dogs there even when she is doing recalls and has every chance of going after them because she is on a long line that is dropped but my dd is able to pick up if necessary. There has to be a reason she does not like these two dogs. The classes for the CGC training has been taking place at the Dog Park and there are lots of dogs running loose and maybe that could cause her to attack the other dogs but then why doesn't she attack the other 4Her's dogs that are participating? She has only attacked them one time each but we want to make sure she doesn't attack them again nor any other dog. It is not a male/female issue that has been eliminated. The sheep thing is the closest thing I can figure out. I was hoping you could help us. My dd is an excellent handler. Our obedience trainer was so impressed with the way she handles our dog that she has asked her to help her when she goes and shows other dogs at dog shows and gave her one of her GSD pups to train and show which we had to give back when I had my accident because we felt it was not fair to the puppy to keep because I was in the hospital for 3 weeks after my accident and then had to stay with relatives and it was just not fair to a puppy to have to stay in a kennel that long. Glitter, who was older, was cared for by my older sons and neighbor. I am considering getting my dd another dog to work with but only because my dd wants to do agility and Glitter does not seem too enthused about this and probably will not have the speed necessary to compete so we are looking at other breeds to get for that and she could do 4H with that dog but that still leaves us with why does she only watch these two dogs and why did she only grab them? At the dog park tonight for our last class, she didn't try to attack them but we have been redirecting her attention when she even looks at them but other dogs that were loose came around her and she ignored them. It just puzzles me and I thought since this was a behavior forum someone might be able to solve the puzzle for us.

[Judi W]

Well, as I said, it was not the smell.

The problem is you don't know what dog is going to be the third one or the fourth one, and so on and the third one could be injured, not just insulted and frightened. It takes a lot of skill and maturity to be able to watch a dog like this like a hawk and make sure she is never in a position to go after another dog. That means no dog park. She is fine when things are organized and predictable, but when someone who seems to be running amuck strikes her fancy, she will go after another one and think she is giving it a spanking. She might see herself as the behavior cop (which BTW is not uncommon with some bitches). That means she needs special handling, to be taught excellent self-control and to be issued cautions whenever she might feel tempted. Although we have had a couple of juniors handle Rottweilers, it was always a retired and very savvy dog - not a youngster. A Rottweiler is a lot of dog for a junior. No matter how good a handler your dear daughter is, this bitch is too big for her britches and obviously too much for a child in unstructured situations.

[Burnsway]

Originally Posted by Judi W

I would suggest that you consider another dog for this project before something much more serious happens. Glitter can be a fine family dog, but is just not experienced or settled enough for a child or a d child.

I agree with this. My daughter wanted to use our Rott mix in a 4H and I would not let her. This is the first experience many children have in dogs and it needs to be 100% successful and pleasant. Not that a Rottweiler can't be that, but as said many junior handlers can not foresee or handle what a working dog is thinking and about to do.

Great program in my eyes and thank you for your volunteer work at it, but maybe your local shelter would love to let your daughter take on a foster once a week during this class. That would be my suggestion, then the dog will be more trained for their new future home and the foster family would probably be thrilled for the extra attention the dog is getting.......

[pogomisha]

Unfortunately, our shelter will not let us do anything at all with the dogs in the shelter. They will not let anyone foster them or come and train them or even come and walk any of them. We asked. Our club thought about doing this as a service project but they refused to allow us to be involved in anyway with them. I even tried to get them to let me come and take pictures to put the dogs on petfinders but they won't let us do that.

I never thought about Glitter wanting to discipline the dogs.

We are considering getting her either a Sheltie (we are leaning toward that) or a Australian Shepherd because my dd wants to do agility and both of these breeds are supposed to be good at agility. We have talked to some people involved in rescue for both breeds at the state fair and they are supposed to email me with some information on both breeds and what dogs they have available. However, we had considered doing obedience with Glitter and agility, obedience, and jr. showmanship with the new dog.

Thanks for everyone's advice.

[Burnsway]

Well my advice would be befor getting another dog that you make sure that the one you have is not too "dog to dog aggressive" to accept another dog. The last thing you want to do is get a dog for your 9yr old child and then have to deal with 2 dogs with issues........

[pogomisha]

Originally Posted by Burnsway

Well my advice would be befor getting another dog that you make sure that the one you have is not too "dog to dog aggressive" to accept another dog. The last thing you want to do is get a dog for your 9yr old child and then have to deal with 2 dogs with issues........

Except for these particular two dogs we have never had a problem with Glitter being dog aggressive. We had her at 4H Dog Camp in May and had no problems with her and unless you have something like that you can't imagine what it is like. There was about 100 kids and their adult 4H leaders plus instructors and each child had at least one dog and some of the leaders had dog(s) and the instructors had dogs and all the kids would sit on the ground talking during their free time and the dogs would be at their feet or they were sitting around picnic tables and the dogs laying beside each other on lead of course. The kids took classes in obedience, showmanship, and other classes. In the evenings they had choices of taking classes in such things as dancing with their dogs, tracking, etc. During all these times Glitter and my dd were participating and Glitter was never aggressive even though dogs were close to her and sometimes laying beside her or sitting beside her. In the 4H classes we have she has only shown aggression to these two dogs and she has never bothered any dogs at the dog park so I still honestly feel it has something to do with these two particular dogs or the handler. Something she senses about them. The obedience handler we use says that we should not be overly concerned about it that not every dog should be expected to like every other dog just like humans don't like every other dog but that she should be made to tolerate them and that is what we are working on. But once again thank everyone for their input.

[AngelBunny]

Glitter obviously doesn't care for these dogs and she clearly showed her dislike by what she did. That's wonderful Glitter is good with almost every dog she meets, regardless of sex, but the point is your daughter wasn't able to control her when she wasn't. A characteristic of a good handler is that he or she isn't taken by surprise because they're watching the dog and are so closely attuned to the dog they are able to nip things in the bud. With good handlers, things don't get out of control. It is possible your daughter will be a stellar handler when she gets older, but I agree with others whose opinion is that it is risky for a child to handle a dog like a Rottie.

I suggest your new dog be a male. It can be nasty at best, deadly at worst, when two females decide the planet is too small for both of them.

[Sargeant_C]

We discussed in my puppy's obedience class that some dogs just do not like other dogs. Just like some humans do not like every human. She suggested that this was okay and to do all we could to keep the dogs seperated. I had to agree with her cuz Sarge my rott went with us to adopt our new dog and he hated her sisters with a passion. But he loved Mindy.
Since you stated that this is not a proffessional training that you are doing I would suggest that you try and get your dog into training such as obedience. This will help you and your daughter out. Especially since you are disabled I would hate to see what would happen if your dog got mad at your daughter. It could happen, so think about getting some proffessional obedience classes so that you, your dog and your daughter can have a better life. Hoped this help some.

[pogomisha]

Originally Posted by Sargeant_C

Since you stated that this is not a proffessional training that you are doing I would suggest that you try and get your dog into training such as obedience. This will help you and your daughter out. Especially since you are disabled I would hate to see what would happen if your dog got mad at your daughter. It could happen, so think about getting some proffessional obedience classes so that you, your dog and your daughter can have a better life. Hoped this help some.

My dd is already in a professional obedience class with a professional trainer and there she has finished basic obedience. She finished basic obedience with her when she was 6 and because of my knee and leg injury could not go on with it so she continuted practicing what she had learned. She just finished a refresher basic obedience classic with our trainer and is now going on to intermediate obedience (?) where they start working on getting the dogs off lead trained.

I am the 4H Dog Club leader. The first time it happened my dd was away from everyone else and rather far away working on Glitter while I explained to the other kids how to start teaching the dogs to heel using treat motivation. I have had dogs all my life and used to at one time breed labs and Chinese Shar Peis and we have always trained our dogs in basic obedience. What I have been doing is just sharing my knowledge since no one else seemed to want to help us out. However, things are looking up for our club because a AKC Kennel Club in another nearby state has offered to mentor us which will help immensely.

One of the things our trainer has told my dd to do is watch when Glitter starts staring at another dog and then to make her heel away or do someother obedience exercise to make her refocus her attention on my dd. We have also been taking her to places where there are lots of people and dogs and working her to teach her to avoid distractions.

As far as Glitter hurting one of us, I am still able to manuever enough to keep this from happening. Plus she is one of the most loving dogs, I have ever seen and if I ever had a suspicion that this would happen, she would be gone. We also do long down stays per the instructor to make Glitter know that we are the alphas and have done that for quite some time. Now we just do it about once or twice a week. I am disabled to the extent that I can not walk far distances or walk fast. I can still walk but use a cane when needed to assist me. I could actually compete myself in obedience with her if AKC would allow me not to run but to only walk slow with her. Glitter has also taught herself to steady me when she sees me get unsteady.

I have already decided that the next dog we will get will be a male. If we get another dog, I will probably have Glitter trained to be my service dog and let my dd train the new dog for 4H.

Thanks again for your advice.

[Judi W]

How old is dd? Yes, age does matter. I have worked with children who had incidents with their dogs and it can be very distressing for them as I am sure these have been for your daughter. What you do not want is for people to start saying "stay away from her because her dog attacks other dogs"..........

[sophie's-mom]

Her daughter is 9.

In my opinion, that's A LOT for a 9 year old to deal with!!

Except for these particular two dogs we have never had a problem with Glitter being dog aggressive.

No offense, but I would finish this sentence with, "until now"

there does, in my opinion, seem to be a problem because a 9 year old can not control a 3 year old Rottweiler the proper way, and the dog probably knows this.

[leonberger]

Originally Posted by pogomisha

Unfortunately, our shelter will not let us do anything at all with the dogs in the shelter. They will not let anyone foster them or come and train them or even come and walk any of them. We asked. Our club thought about doing this as a service project but they refused to allow us to be involved in anyway with them. I even tried to get them to let me come and take pictures to put the dogs on petfinders but they won't let us do that.

I never thought about Glitter wanting to discipline the dogs.

We are considering getting her either a Sheltie (we are leaning toward that) or a Australian Shepherd because my dd wants to do agility and both of these breeds are supposed to be good at agility. We have talked to some people involved in rescue for both breeds at the state fair and they are supposed to email me with some information on both breeds and what dogs they have available. However, we had considered doing obedience with Glitter and agility, obedience, and jr. showmanship with the new dog.

Thanks for everyone's advice.

I would not get a Sheltie. This seems to be the breed that sets her off. It may be the size of the dog combined with it's speed. All the Sheltie's I have had contact with have been barkers while running. That alone can set off the prey drive in some dogs. Please consider this as I wouldn't want my daughter (if I had one) to have to whitness one of her dogs attacking another "family member".