Need help understanding this behaviour

[Ilovemypuppy]

As most here know, I have two females (spayed, one is 3 1/2 (Maggie) and Bailey is 26 months. I realize this is a same sex, same age grouping situation that requires management and careful observation in order to hopefully have them live together peacefully and for the most part the things I have been doing so far appear to be working well.

They play together here in the house (large house) and wrestle every day without problems (I am always here during that time) and when I am not here, they are separated.

They are both exercised separately and trained separately...currently both girls are training in freestyle dance. Both have been through Level One and Two obedience.

We found we can't walk them together, (my husband and I each taking one of the girls) unless they are kept far enough apart that they can not make contact....as Maggie appears to shift from social to defense mode and tried to jump Bailey.

It's always Maggie reacting badly when she feels under pressure and she goes after Bailey..like if Bailey is being corrected. Example..tonight Alex dropped an elastic band on the floor, Bailey grabbed it...Alex told Bailey to drop it...Maggie comes right over and pins Bailey against the wall with her head held high and posturing. Bailey froze. Knowing NEVER to grab Maggie's collar in a situation like this ,Alex called me..I called Maggie in a happy voice to come to me and go kennel up.

I have been using Kennel Up as Maggie's command if ever she seems to be getting into that mode where she is acting defensive. She will go straight to her kennel, lay down and doesn't come out til I release her. I trained her to do that as a game when she was a puppy. It's sure come in handy. Actually both girls will do that now.

Maggie obviously is the dominant between the two and Bailey seems happy and very good at her position below Maggie. Maggie gets everything first from me and Alex and from Bailey...Bailey will not go through a doorway before Maggie and defers to her in every respect.

I guess what I am asking is: am I reading Maggie's behaviour correctly and am I dealing with it correctly? Advice appreciated and WILL NOT be taken with a "grain of salt"

[Judi W]

It's really not defense, but general bossiness and "hey, let me join in on beating up on that snotty little bailey"..................

I've had a girl that believed that if someone needed a bawling out or "spanking" she'd love to help out. My solution was to always, to tell her "stay out of it" before I reprimanded anyone else. She did learn but it took me giving her a warning over several years..........:)

[Bruce Lanthier]

It sounds as if you are dealing with the way things are very well, all things considered. From what you have said it sounds as if Maggie is a bit of a bully. It sounds as if she gets defensive pretty easily too (no grabbing collar). It sounds more like she shifts into bully mode not defensive mode with Bailey. Maybe the defensive mode (low threshold?) happens when you scold her for being a bully?

In the above situation what would have happened if your husband had told Maggie to get "off" Bailey? Could he have attached a leash to Maggie then? What I would expect to happen: I would tell Maggie "off" and she would back off of Bailey. I would tell her to sit/stay and she would sit there until I told her to move. Buster can bully up sometimes but "off" works very well without throwing him into defense.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Thanks for your quick replies Judi and Bruce
Judi.....I am with the girls all day every day, so your sharing your situation with me helps me a great deal as I have all the time in the world to see that Maggie learns her manners around Bailey. When they are interacting on their own in my presence I observe a give and take between them, although, as I said, Bailey does defer to Maggie (Bailey's is smart and knows her place with regards to Maggie). I don't interfere unless I see that Maggie is getting too pushy and I can read that by watching Bailey's eyes and body language.

For example, if they are playing and wrestling and Bailey is laying down with Maggie standing over her growling loudly and Bailey is being super still and looking away or her hackles are up..I feel she is over whelmed, so I will tell Maggie to kennel up and she will go to it right away. After a few minutes I call them both to me , have them sit and either pet them both or give them both a treat, then tell them to 'go lay down and be lazy', which they both know means to go and lay-down and nap.

Bruce....when Alex called me to 'come quick' and I got to the room, Maggie was standing side by side with Bailey, posturing and Bailey was frozen in place, looking towards the wall so as not to make eye contact with Maggie. Alex and I both know that grabbing Maggie's collar likely would have caused her to launch at Bailey, since this has happened in other situations but we have always been able to bring Maggie under control by physically removing her. In those cases, though, Bailey has gotten a few scratches, never any blood drawn.

We have been avoiding grabbing her collar to prevent that and using verbal control instead and so far it is working.

Bailey wants no part of any discord and tries to conduct herself in such a way as to avoid any in all cases.

[Bruce Lanthier]

Could your husband tell her to kennel up in that situation? Can you command her to do anything in that situation (sit, come, heel)? Have you given her a good bit of hell for jumping on your dog? Who is walking Maggie when you and your husband walk them together and how do you scold her then (no kennel up on walks)? Is she a bully with other dogs? Sorry for more questions, just trying to understand Maggie your level of control with her in this type of situation.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lanthier

Could your husband tell her to kennel up in that situation? Can you command her to do anything in that situation (sit, come, heel)? Have you given her a good bit of hell for jumping on your dog? Who is walking Maggie when you and your husband walk them together and how do you scold her then (no kennel up on walks)? Is she a bully with other dogs? Sorry for more questions, just trying to understand Maggie your level of control with her in this type of situation.

Yes, Alex could have told her to kennel up...but he froze and just called me...we went over how he should have dealt with it and he will do better next time..he was just scared Bailey could get hurt.

Yes, Alex or I can command Maggie to come, sit , and down or heel in that situation.

Yes, I have read the RIOT ACT to Maggie for that behavior, put her on a down/stay for 30 minutes and ignored her.

On walks, Alex usually walks Maggie and I walk Bailey..they are both walked on prong collars when away from home property. I probably should be the one to have Maggie under my control because Alex sometimes doesn't pay close enough attention to Maggie's body language to correct the intention to bully. I have noticed Maggie gets into the bully mode more when Alex is home or present.

On walks together...which we really quit doing.. the prong collar made an instant impression on Maggie, when she tried to bully Bailey.

Maggie is not a bully with other dogs, just Bailey

If you have more questions, please fire away..I really want to understand this and manage this properly.

Bailey always looks so utterly relieved when Maggie is called off in these situations, but is more than likely to go and lay-down by the kennel where Maggie is having her time out (kennel door open).

[Judi W]

I'd say you've taught miss Maggie quite well. You just need to get her to respond to a "don't even think about it" with emphasis so that she is stopped prior to getting over Bailey. You'll catch up with her quickly. It is that old interupt the thought program.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Originally Posted by Judi W

I'd say you've taught miss Maggie quite well. You just need to get her to respond to a "don't even think about it" with emphasis so that she is stopped prior to getting over Bailey. You'll catch up with her quickly. It is that old interupt the thought program.

Thanks Judi..I will do that

[Bruce Lanthier]

I agree with Judi. I would like to add that I think your husband is a bit of a catalyst for this. She is not to impressed with his leadership in these type of situations so she takes advantage. One thing I would do: I would intentionally take them on walks together with you on Maggie. Ignore your husband and Bailey, focus on Maggie and, as Judi says, when you see her take an "interest", stop her. Maybe make the walks short in the beginning (they may be a bit stressful LOL) but make her focus on you. I would be no nonsense and she would know it.

[Bruce Lanthier]

One other thing. Instead of sending her to the kennel I would make her sit where she was and stay there if you notice her getting in the mode or after an incident. Make her practice self control under you command. I don't know about the riot act but you have to make her understand how unhappy she makes you when she does this. She's getting some kind of satisfaction out of it or she would not keep doing it, at least not at the level it appears to be.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lanthier

I agree with Judi. I would like to add that I think your husband is a bit of a catalyst for this. She is not to impressed with his leadership in these type of situations so she takes advantage. One thing I would do: I would intentionally take them on walks together with you on Maggie. Ignore your husband and Bailey, focus on Maggie and, as Judi says, when you see her take an "interest", stop her. Maybe make the walks short in the beginning (they may be a bit stressful LOL) but make her focus on you. I would be no nonsense and she would know it.

Thanks Bruce..good point..we'll try that and I can tell you that I won't let my mind wonder for a second and Maggie will know it.

[Ilovemypuppy]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lanthier

One other thing. Instead of sending her to the kennel I would make her sit where she was and stay there if you notice her getting in the mode or after an incident. Make her practice self control under you command. I don't know about the riot act but you have to make her understand how unhappy she makes you when she does this. She's getting some kind of satisfaction out of it or she would not keep doing it, at least not at the level it appears to be.

The reason for getting her away from Bailey was because at that point, Bailey has frozen into place..so I get Maggie to move away...she will keep staring at Bailey unless she is moved far enough away and made to stay in place for a time.

Bailey will not move a hair until she feels Maggie is out of range....they both recover quickly upon dissolution of the situation and return to normal behaviour.

These incidents are becoming fewer, but they do still happen and when they do, they are no less upsetting.