i need suggestions

[pbhound]

My Raven was on the living room floor chewing on a pig twist, my daughter (who is 6) came up and sat next to her and looked at her, this is when Raven growled very aggressivly at my daughter; (this is the first time she has ever done this in the 8 months that we have had her; she is 11 months old). we have always played with her food as she was eating, taken bones from her as she was chewing on them, and even rubbed her face cheaks, and chin/jaw, even had the kids do it while we were supervising it. but this is the first time she has ever gotten even remotely aggressive with anything that resembles food. i took every chew/toy from her and gated her in the dinning room as a punishment, and we are goign to start to play with her food again as she eats just to try and prevent this from happening again, i just want any suggestions as to why she would start to do this now....

as i said that we have punished her by gating her into the dinning room away from the rest of us, she is whining so much and talking you would think we are beating her, i dont know how long i can keep her in there before i get sick of her whining. my wife wants me to do it over night to help it sink in that she is not aloud to growl at anyone like that. (she has a growl that she uses when she talks to us, she thinks she is a person and has to get the last word in most of the time).

any and all suggestion/questions will be appreciated

[Roxibear]

Just the other day I took a marrow bone off Roxi because I didn't like her body language if anybody was around, no growls but I didn't take any chances. I have heard of dogs being possesive over pigs ears that haven't been with anything else. Simple thing would be just give her items that you know she's ok with. Do a search on resource guarding, there have been loads of posts in the past. Good luck.

[sophie's-mom]

Originally Posted by pbhound

and we are goign to start to play with her food again as she eats

What you're going to teach her is that if she's eating peacefully there is a possibility that someone may come and try to take her food.

I think you're confusing aggression with posession. The dog was not being aggressive, the dog was guarding a valued treat that the dog should either be crated with or left to eat/chew in peace.

The dog does not know that the child "simply and innocently JUST SAT next to the dog"

Just a question, Can the dog be isolated during treat time?

i took every chew/toy from her and gated her in the dinning room as a punishment

But what did you DO to let the dog know the behavior wasn't acceptable?? I mean, if I walk up to you and turn your computer off, are you going to know why?

pbhound, I wanted to add that I am in no way trying to be rude or ugly towards you. I am posting with the wellbeing of you, your family and your dog at heart. Thank you!!

[jbach]

Agree with Sophie's Mom. If you find yourself in a position of correcting your dog, time outs don't work. A swift verbal correction (in your "I mean business" voice)works fairly well. I also would like to point out the drawbacks to high value items such as marrow bones, pig ears, and anything else the dog wants to protect. The dog should be left alone to enjoy those items in peace. The best place for that is in the crate where no one should be bothering the dog.
As far as isolating the dog over night, the dog has no idea that he is being punished at all so this method will be ineffective.
You mentioned the dog is 11 months old. Have you been in any training classes yet? That can help some of the "backtalk".
And she is starting this behavior now because you are allowing her to do it. Maybe go back to basics for a few days and keep a leash on her and tethered to you. This will allow for instant leash/collar corrections for inappropriate behavior. Best of Luck!

[moondog]

Originally Posted by pbhound

...we have always played with her food as she was eating, taken bones from her as she was chewing on them, and even rubbed her face cheaks, and chin/jaw, even had the kids do it while we were supervising it....

The only thing you should be doing while she's eating, if anything at all, is dropping a tidbit or two in her dish to reassure her that your presence near her dish is a good thing, rather than a chance she may lose her food. Otherwise, you run the risk of actually teaching her to be food aggressive. Let her eat in peace!

As far as bones go, those are a very high value item for a dog. If you take them away, you must give them back immediately, too, in order for her to learn that she need not be threatened that her bone will be lost forever. Or offer a trade to her .... you give me your bone and I'll give you my bone. Don't take it away without offering her something equal in value TO HER in return. Once she learns by experience that you can be trusted with something so important to her, you won't have a problem removing them without needing to trade for it.

Most importantly of all, you should NOT be putting your children at risk by teaching them it is OK to mess with the dog when she has a meal or a bone or anything else that is of high value to them. Saying you are supervising is all well and good, but the reality is if your dog decides she has had enough and goes to bite, it will likely happen so fast that you will only be a witness to it. Children should be taught to leave a dog alone when it has food, a bone, or any other item that the dog may try to protect.

Originally Posted by pbhound

as i said that we have punished her by gating her into the dinning room away from the rest of us, she is whining so much and talking you would think we are beating her, i dont know how long i can keep her in there before i get sick of her whining. my wife wants me to do it over night to help it sink in that she is not aloud to growl at anyone like that.

Well, your wife is wrong. Dogs to not reflect on their behavior for hours on end. If they are to be corrected, you must correct them IMMEDIATELY because after the first few seconds they will not make a connection between behavior and punishment or understand why they are being rejected and will only see YOUR behavior as something very confusing. If your dog doesn't get the message from you immediately, you could isolate her for weeks and nothing more would sink in.

Originally Posted by pbhound

she thinks she is a person and has to get the last word in most of the time

It sounds more like her owners think she is a person to me! Dogs do not think like people, they think like dogs. Get her into obedience classes and buy yourself a copy of "Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson and read it cover to cover, twice! It's a great book and will really go a long way towards helping you to understand how a dog sees the world and how you can help her understand her place in it. That makes for happy owners, happy dogs, and safe and happy kids.

[babybluetx23]

I found a GREAT website on Resource Guarding. Hope this Helps you.
http://www.napoleon.org.uk/training/thingguard.htm
Here is another:
http://www.charleszukow.com/download...ldson_book.pdf
And one More:
http://www.petfinder.org/journalinde...ogs/1.2.12.txt
It's very much a mistake simply to label a dog with a resource guarding problem as 'dominant', which is a very outdated term in canine behaviour therapy. This is largely because it is just too simplistic to think that everything a dog might do which his owners disapprove of is some kind of a bid for power, especially if it involves threat behaviour. This label can also encourage owners to look for opportunities to score points back on their dog when their time would be much better spent looking for opportunities to teach him not to guard his possessions and to reward him for doing other things.

[pbhound]

i really do appreciate all your help with this we have read about 4 or 5 books on raising dogs, and training then also read a couple on rottie behavior, and most of them said to stick ands in/around food as dog is eating. i also scolded her right after she did it told her no and then i put her in time out.

also this is the first time that she has even done this to anyone even a stranger, that is why i am not sure why she is doing this...oh and when we would play with her food and take away a treat we would give her praise and give it right back.

[rottnelmo]

Originally Posted by pbhound

(she has a growl that she uses when she talks to us, she thinks she is a person and has to get the last word in most of the time).

any and all suggestion/questions will be appreciated

I agree with all that has been said especially Moondog and Sophies-Mom. They hit the nail on the head with how to correct the resource guarding and how to deal with it the next time.

The only thing that I want to add is that NO growling is GOOD growling. I do not allow growling of ANY kind for ANY reason. A growl, to me, is a precurser to a bite...they are warning you of something. A perfect example is our Elmo. He HATES to be picked up, but sometimes you just HAVE to pick your dog up...if they are hurt or need to be put up on a table at the vets office. In the past if we attempted to pick him up, he would growl at who ever was picking him up (at 96 pounds that is usually my husband, because I cant lift that! )...our response would be a quick deep "NO GROWL" "WE DO NOT GROWL". Now he knows that growling equates getting yelled at. I do not allow growling over toys or food either, so make sure when there is a growl QUICKLY reprimand your pup with a loud booming voice and if you can do it quick enough (within 2 seconds of the growl) toss a shaker can.

This will teach that behavior is not acceptable. Hope that helps...

[pbhound]

ok i miss spoke i am not sure when she talks to us if its a growl it really doesnt sound like one...but i dont know how else to describe it its like she is talking and i know she is by her body language.

[Denise L.]

These folks are right!

My dog Cyrus all of a sudden got very protective of his marrow bones and he growled at me once when I was just passing by. I gave him a verbal lashing like he never heard before! I put him in a 10-15 minute time out in the dining room (more for ME to cool down!) and then did some "trading" exercises with him.

That was about 3 weeks ago and he has not growled at mommy since.

[RottiMomCT]

Ben was given a rib bone from a prime rib dinner and once he got the meat off of it I took it away from him...he let out a growl like I had never heard from him and bared his teeth at me. I told him to "KNOCK IT OFF!" and proceeded to place my leg between his feet and pushed him out of the way so I could get that bone.

I will never ever ever tolerate that kind of behavior from any dog in my home, especially around kids!

That being said, I would not mess with the food bowl by simply putting hands in it or randomly moving it or taking it away. That can and often DOES lead to protecting it even more. Allow someone in your home to screw around with your dinner plate every night for a week at random times until you are finished - if they allow you to finish. Annoying scenarios isn't it?

Well, that's what your dog is going through and it's just not nice, is it? Have a handfull of the dogs regular ration of kibble and place a few nuggets into the bowl while talking to the dog "hey, got some yummy stuff for you - lemme put it in your bowl...". Do the same thing with bones or other non-regular food stuffs. Trade for a small cookie or a stuffed toy and then give back the original item. Tell the dog to 'give' or 'drop it' and when the item in their mouth is released, praise! You should always be able to approach your dog if he or she has something in their mouth.

EVERYTHING in your home belongs to YOU, including whatever the dog may have in their mouth. God forbid yor dog gets ahold of a smelly rotten dead animal and begins to eat it - having proofed the command "LEAVE IT" or "DROP IT" will certainly come in handy.

Reading a book that tells you to mess with your dogs bowl certainly works on paper but your dog can't read...know what works for YOUR DOG and you'll have much more success than what's read in a book...

Raven didn't know what your daughter was going to do when she sat down next to her and she perceieved her as a possible threat. Personally I would have moved the child away from the dog or never allowed her to sit that close to her while chewing on what the dog sees as a 'high value item' that needs to be protected from the little person sitting next to her.

When Raven has a high value item (I call anything that has ever come off of a living creature a high value item), allow her to enjoy it in peace - crate her or restrict access to the area she is in.

[groupieindenial]

I just took my pup to the vet last night, and he did the same thing. Mind you he is only 8 weeks, and I have not given him any bones yet, but the vet gave him a Dentabone, and he growled when I went to pet him. Now I think the whole experience in the waiting area before hand had him scared. They got backed up, and I had to wait for quite a while. He only has his first shots, and other dogs were in the room, I had to keep him on my lap the whole time. Then a dog came out from the exam room, and was yelpin, barking really loud (wanted to play with Vegas), and it scared him, cuz there was so much echo, and the Malimutes that were in there with us earlier were whining to play with him too. SO bearing that in mind, by the time we got to the examining part, he was already a little freaked out. He'd only growl when touched, so I continued to pet him, and when he growled I said "NO" and after a few minutes, he stopped growling. I handled the bone while he was chewing, actually holding it for him to make it easier, and not fall off the examining table. I'd take it, smell it (I was wondering why he thought the Dentabone was soo good, doesn't smell like much), and then give it back. THe vet told me what I was doing was exactly right, and did warn not to mess with his food too much though, cuz it can be irritating and cause problems. Not all the time, but sometimes while he's eating, especially if he's laying down I touch his paws, spread his webbing. My breeder told me to get him used to having his paws touched so I can later clip his nails without problem. So anyways, he's never done this until yesterday, and I want to know when is it too much pestering him? Cuz I know he needs to learn this now while he's really young. I do believe as he gets older, I have to leave him with his bones to enjoy, but I do want the control to be able to take anything from him without him growling, or snapping at me.

[pbhound]

thank you all for your input, i have done what many of you had suggested (when she is chewing her pig twist give her a treat to show her you are happy and that you dont want to take it away), it has now been about 3 days and now when she is chewing on her pig twist and we come near her she will actually hand us her twist as to say "see i have learned to share" and after she does that we praise her and give her a little treat...

again thanks all

[lblax]

Originally Posted by pbhound

we have always played with her food as she was eating, taken bones from her as she was chewing on them, and even rubbed her face cheaks, and chin/jaw, even had the kids do it while we were supervising it.

by doing the things above you have done a very nice job of making her food/possesion aggressive

[rottnkidd]

I agree with Larry. There have recently been similar posts on this very subject, and it's been the overall consensus that we can actually be 'teaching' our dogs to guard their food, toys, etc., by teasing them. It may not have been your intention, but that's how the dog sees it.
And just my own .02, but I don't understand why people continue to poke and prod and give and take with their dog's food or treats.
kathy