Hercules growled at instructor

[HerculesMomma]

What can I say but I'm so upset I feel like I must be doing something wrong. Last night was our first agility class and we were a good 45 minutes into class when we were working on recall. One of the handlers took Herc from me, was in a crouched down position and had him by the collar. We did the recall and Herc did great. The instructor told us to do it again, so the handler, who was crouched down, went to take Herc by the collar - and he growled at her!

I was standing up right next to him and I never heard it so I didn't react. The handler simply said whoa - which of course my reply was whats wrong? At which time she told me.

I kind of screwed up, since I didn't hear him do it personally and there was a short delay of when the girl told me what he did, I was so in shock I didn't correct him right away. He's not done this outside the house so this was totally unexpected. He's always been good outside of the house with meeting people and to my knowledge has never growled at them. Of course, now I'm second guessing if he ever has growled at someone and if I simply haven't heard it? Gosh, I think I'm still in shock. Right afterwards Herc kept standing by the door like he just wanted to leave.

What am I doing wrong? I know I totally screwed up and missed the chance to correct him so thats an open door for him to think he can do it again, but I won't make that mistake twice. I've already freaked out today and called my vet for a referal to a behaviorist. Am I making to much out of this? This was a new class, new training facility, new people etc for Hercules. He's only been here (in my home) 3 months too. Not that I'm intersted in making excuses for his behavior but how do I correct it if I don't know why it's happening. Do you think a behaviorist would even be worth our while? Maybe just to evaluate him?

In the end when I spoke to the instructor she offered to have me come with Hercules to the Rally-O class on Wednesday night to see if that might be a better fit for us. It's all on leash and only I will be in control of handling him. Which sounds like a better option for us at this time, but I still need to address this issue. Her concern for her handlers and others is obvious and fair and she does seem like she's trying to work with me (they will NOT take any dogs who are dog or people aggresive in their classes). I thought for sure we were just going to simply get kicked out of class altogether and I was choking back the tears last night. Any ideas?

[Rott-Wiley]

Originally Posted by HerculesMomma

What am I doing wrong? I know I totally screwed up and missed the chance to correct him so thats an open door for him to think he can do it again, but I won't make that mistake twice. I've already freaked out today and called my vet for a referal to a behaviorist. Am I making to much out of this? This was a new class, new training facility, new people etc for Hercules. He's only been here (in my home) 3 months too. Not that I'm intersted in making excuses for his behavior but how do I correct it if I don't know why it's happening. Do you think a behaviorist would even be worth our while? Maybe just to evaluate him?

It may be worth while to have a behaviorist evaluate him. More for your piece of mind than anything else. You've had him for 3 months but you didn't say how old he is. In the meantime keep working with him, that will help keep him under control.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by HerculesMomma

I've already freaked out today and called my vet for a referal to a behaviorist. Am I making to much out of this? This was a new class, new training facility, new people etc for Hercules. Do you think a behaviorist would even be worth our while? Maybe just to evaluate him?

Any ideas?

yes you are making to much out of it.. just because herc. is full grown doesnt mean a new experiance might not be a bit stressfull. he just simply cant go into a new situation and you expect him to acclamate 100% the 1st time dogs are not required or expected to like everyone and just because he growled does not mean he may have a temparment problem.. i personally think the 1st time there was too soon to let someone else even take his leash let alone crouch down and hold them by the collar, i wouldnt worry about it at all he simply just hasnt been put in those situations before.

[Miabella]

I agree with Larry. I also think it's possible that because you were working on recalls, her holding him back to build up his desire to get to you may have been a factor. The growl may very well have been a vocalization due to being pumped up rather than an actual threat to her.

[Roxibear]

If it was threatening and you were standing next to him I'm sure you would have heard. Is he familiar with people crouching beside him, he might just have got spooked.

[tilerspop]

If he was issuing a warning, I'm sure you would have heard it. It may be a bit early to get into this type of training with him. It took a long time before I could give Tilers leash over to some one else to hold, let alone grab his collar.

[HerculesMomma]

Just to answer a few of the questions asked - Hercules is 2 1/2 yrs. old probably getting real close to 3. He was just adopted 3 months ago, so I'm not sure he's used to strangers crouching down next to him. Since I've had him, strangers haven't really done that to him.

I think I told LavendarRott that Herc doesn't seem to want the handlers to take him from me. I noticed this in our first OB class that when the instructor took him to use him for an example that Herc seemed a bit reluctant to go with her. I did kind of notice he was hesitant the second time this handler tried to take him in this class, but I surely wasn't expecting a growl.

i personally think the 1st time there was too soon to let someone else even take his leash let alone crouch down and hold them by the collar

Larry, is this simply due to me not knowing Hercules background, or just an overall trust issue with the dog? I know overall Rotts tend to be aloof towards strangers - is this a factor in it too?

It took a long time before I could give Tilers leash over to some one else to hold, let alone grab his collar.

Why tilerspop? Was it a fear issue with tiler or just a trust issue?

[lblax]

[quote=HerculesMomma]

Larry, is this simply due to me not knowing Hercules background, or just an overall trust issue with the dog? I know overall Rotts tend to be aloof towards strangers - is this a factor in it too?


?[/QUOTEno it is normal for dog not to want others to take over , any dog has to be conditioned for this. what happened is no big deal so now you know you just socialize him more in crowds / you find someone he knows to work with recalls so he gets use to being handled if thats what you want.. we do the recalls with pups the same way and even with the older dogs it perks them up .. for instance my dog will let the others in the club handle him like that but if a stranger came in and held him back while i was calling him i'm fairly sure he would bite them to go... it has nothing to do with temparmant(from everything else ive read you posted he seems like a fairly nice anim,al) and everything with conditioning

[German Vanegas]

I concur with Larry's replies.

[Judi W]

I too pretty much agree with Larry. As far as those who believe you'd have heard the dog growling - not so. I've handled more than a couple of dogs in the breed ring (not my own) that started to growl at the judge and the judge never knew it because I got the dog under control quickly. You can feel that dog growling long before someone standing even inches away would ever hear it.

The dog can easily be conditioned to working with others. One thing that helps a lot is for you to shake hands with the other person and chat them up for a minute first, let the dog see you hand them the leash, pat the dog and stand back and chat some more, have them walk a few steps and then return to the dog (more chatting), you get the idea. Build up to it. He just didn't have a clue as to what was going on. He's just learning about you and now he has to learn about the bigger world and other people. Takes a bit of time.

[Mary Bouchard]

My dog did this and I followed Judi W. advice on shaking hands and chatting the people up while patting him and he is much more approachable and takes people and social situations much calmer it really worked well.

[jbach]

I have a dog that gets stressed when strange people are "on his level". A stranger grabbing a collar while in a crouched position could have been interpreted as some type of threat. You're in a great position now to work with Herc on this. Good luck!

[debbiej]

I am not real experienced here, but my girl has taught me a few things. Sometimes even people who should know better put intelligent dogs with good temperament in a position of justifiable protest. So now I am more careful in more situations. In our class the instructor was walking quickly to another dog, approached her from behind, and leaned over, giving her a pat on the side. she growled at him. I didn't correct her because everything was so quick. There are differences in growls. this was clearly a protest, not aggression. Now I watch what people are intending to do more closely. Another time a vet tech was playing with her in an "intrusive" way. she turned her head and pushed the hand away with her mouth. not a bite, but a protest in the only way she knew how. My fault for letting someone become so familiar with her. So I am learning how to prevent people from taking advantage of her approachability and good nature. I don't think it is fair to expect a dog with so much dignity, intellegence and loyalty to just accept anything from anybody. To keep her from having to tell people "enough" I have to be the one to do it for her.

[tilerspop]

Yes it is a trust issue, and a fear of being left again issue.

I agree with Larrys post entirely.

Remember, you're dealing with a recent rescue. He's lost a home or two, or been neglected or abused, he doesn't want that to happen again. He is not likely to trust being left with a stranger easily now that he has become attached to you. I would say that it is likely that he doesn't trust you not to abandon him yet. This will take time and training, but it can be overcome.

[SABELLESMOM]

It sounds as if the instructor may have made a somewhat threatening approach. Herc is new to you, is he not? This is a new and strange situation for him. He was approached by a relative stranger and it sounds like she may have even bent over him? You used the word "crouched", which is what made me think so.

Bending "over" a dog is sometimes out of their comfort zone. Some don't like it and he voiced his displeasure. Others, particularly young, inexperienced ones may cringe instead.

It doesn't mean you can't do agility with him. You may work on familiarizing him with the primary instructors first and gradually broaden his horizons. It may take a little longer for him to feel confident and comfortable with classes.

You've gotten some wonderful responses!