Feeling like a complete failure - please help (very long)

[Judi W]

I'm thinking you have perhaps been putting his behavior into little boxes instead of looking at it as an entire package. Example - him showing aggression towards the young man that tried to pet him given as separate from the aggression he's been showing towards your daughter, etc. If you make each thing look like isolated incidents you are not looking at the whole and misleading completely not just yourself but in regards to advice given.

I somewhat suspect that you have been a bit too timid in your management of him thinking he was perhaps fragile and he has quickly taken it to heart which is why he fought so hard when you finally decided you'd had enough. He certainly would not like the tables being turned on his doing what he wants which is why he reacted so strongly. It is very difficult to derank a dog that has assumed the upper hand, even if a pup. They do not like it one bit. That doesn't mean it isn't done for it must be if he is going to turn into an acceptable member of society but expect it to be a fight for a while. Once things are settled between him and the world, everyone (including the dog) will be much happier.

I agree that you need assistance and most likely more than you can get over the internet as coaching is best done when your coach can actually see and feel what is going on and help you with your timing and body english. You need to have taken a stand regarding your daughter from the get go. Not fair to her otherwise. This is a sturdy male Rottweiler, not a fragile flower and it does him no favor to pamper him. First thing you must do is change your attitude and accompany that with sturdy body english and good tone of voice. There is much more, but your own attitude will have great affect.

[MontanaRott]

I think this would be a perfect time to post your story about the Prince, Judi.

[Judi W]

Well, unfortunately it is not the beginning of the story, but we're not too far into it, so here goes.

A fable

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A short fable:

Once upon a time there was a prince and princess who were kind and beautiful and had a lovely kingdom. Their castle had fine gardens with a wall to keep out vandals and shelter them. But they were lonely and sometimes they worried that the vandals might climb over the walls and enter their kingdom so they decided that they would share their kingdom with a loving a loyal beast that would help fill their lives and protect them from danger. They studied and read and finally decided on the kind of beast they wanted. Although almost all of the books they read and the people they talked to said that "Rottweilers are not for everyone", and that they can be troublesome, they knew in their hearts that this just was not so. They just knew that the bad stories they had heard were all about dogs that had been abused and had not been loved enough. They would truly love their dog and in return the dog would love and protect them.

So, it came to pass that the prince and princess brought home a beautiful Rottweiler puppy. They fed him the very best of food and bought him the very finest collars and leashes and beds to sleep on. Every day they stroked him and told him he was indeed the finest dog in the world. When he wanted something special, they immediately saw to it that he received whatever he desired and when he told them he wanted even more petting they gave it freely. He was such a fine and beautiful dog that he was given the best places to rest and he was admired each and every time he entered a room.

He was a very happy dog and his owners were very happy. Now, Rottweilers are quite smart, so when this young dog kept hearing that he was the finest breathing thing around and that he deserved the very best the world had to offer, he believed it. After all, weren't all of his wants and desires met the minute he even indicated them? Wasn't he stroked and admired each and every waking moment of each and every day? As he got older and stronger, he also realized that this kingdom truly needed a king, not just a prince and princess. He decided that there did need to be a ruler and that he would fit the bill just fine. He started out by taking over the entire couch and being in charge of all doorways so that no one could enter or leave without his permission. This worked out so well, he expanded his authority to all the furniture and rooms in the house and demanded that anyone who visited the kingdom also admire and obey him or he made sure they were threatened with consequences.

One day the princess was busy preparing food for the prince and, with her hands full, turned and bumped into the king who was standing nearby waiting for some dinner. The king was extremely angry at being bumped at a time when he was hungry so he - what ? gasp!!!!! BIT the princess! The prince and princess were shocked and horrified and their feelings were terribly hurt. Why hadn't they loved this dog beyond all understanding? Hadn't they seen to it that his every need was met? It must be that he was not feeling well or perhaps the princess stepped on his toe and injured him. Surely their protector and beautiful baby could not have meant to hurt the princess!

Remember the children's books where you get to choose the ending of the story? Well, there are several endings possible for this story. Some are not so pretty and involve a one-way trip to the vetenarian. Others involve heavy and serious "re-education" for the dog with lifelong discomfort and vigilance for the prince and princess. Still another has the dog living happily everafter, being served by a very nervous prince and princess and receiving all sorts of steak and goodies in order to move him from one place to another safely. (of course the last is the one preferred by the dog).

The moral? "Love is not enough" and the best way to influence the end of a story is at the beginning.

[HerculesMomma]

Great story Judi W!

Eva I wish you the best with your behaviorist. I would really like to think that a 14 week old pup can be salvagable through seeking the right advice from a professional experienced with rotties. It sure seems like it would be feasible. I just wanted to pass along my best wishes.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by eva247

Kane is 14 weeks old now so still only a baby

all this trouble from a 14 week old pup??????????????i think its time you rehome this pup i just think its a simple matter that the owner knows nothing of raising a dog she should rehome him then do lots of studying how to raise a pup before they try it again

[Anne]

Eva I would just like to commend you for being willing to go as far as you can with this pup.
I would hope that with the help of a behaviourist who is experienced with our breed that you will be successful..Good luck and keep us posted please.

[MontanaRott]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Well, unfortunately it is not the beginning of the story, but we're not too far into it, so here goes.

A fable

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A short fable:

Once upon a time there was a prince and princess who were kind and beautiful and had a lovely kingdom. Their castle had fine gardens with a wall to keep out vandals and shelter them. But they were lonely and sometimes they worried that the vandals might climb over the walls and enter their kingdom so they decided that they would share their kingdom with a loving a loyal beast that would help fill their lives and protect them from danger. They studied and read and finally decided on the kind of beast they wanted. Although almost all of the books they read and the people they talked to said that "Rottweilers are not for everyone", and that they can be troublesome, they knew in their hearts that this just was not so. They just knew that the bad stories they had heard were all about dogs that had been abused and had not been loved enough. They would truly love their dog and in return the dog would love and protect them.

So, it came to pass that the prince and princess brought home a beautiful Rottweiler puppy. They fed him the very best of food and bought him the very finest collars and leashes and beds to sleep on. Every day they stroked him and told him he was indeed the finest dog in the world. When he wanted something special, they immediately saw to it that he received whatever he desired and when he told them he wanted even more petting they gave it freely. He was such a fine and beautiful dog that he was given the best places to rest and he was admired each and every time he entered a room.

He was a very happy dog and his owners were very happy. Now, Rottweilers are quite smart, so when this young dog kept hearing that he was the finest breathing thing around and that he deserved the very best the world had to offer, he believed it. After all, weren't all of his wants and desires met the minute he even indicated them? Wasn't he stroked and admired each and every waking moment of each and every day? As he got older and stronger, he also realized that this kingdom truly needed a king, not just a prince and princess. He decided that there did need to be a ruler and that he would fit the bill just fine. He started out by taking over the entire couch and being in charge of all doorways so that no one could enter or leave without his permission. This worked out so well, he expanded his authority to all the furniture and rooms in the house and demanded that anyone who visited the kingdom also admire and obey him or he made sure they were threatened with consequences.

One day the princess was busy preparing food for the prince and, with her hands full, turned and bumped into the king who was standing nearby waiting for some dinner. The king was extremely angry at being bumped at a time when he was hungry so he - what ? gasp!!!!! BIT the princess! The prince and princess were shocked and horrified and their feelings were terribly hurt. Why hadn't they loved this dog beyond all understanding? Hadn't they seen to it that his every need was met? It must be that he was not feeling well or perhaps the princess stepped on his toe and injured him. Surely their protector and beautiful baby could not have meant to hurt the princess!

Remember the children's books where you get to choose the ending of the story? Well, there are several endings possible for this story. Some are not so pretty and involve a one-way trip to the vetenarian. Others involve heavy and serious "re-education" for the dog with lifelong discomfort and vigilance for the prince and princess. Still another has the dog living happily everafter, being served by a very nervous prince and princess and receiving all sorts of steak and goodies in order to move him from one place to another safely. (of course the last is the one preferred by the dog).

The moral? "Love is not enough" and the best way to influence the end of a story is at the beginning.

Thank you Judi, it never hurts for this story to make a comeback!

[German Vanegas]

Eva,
Read very carefully what Judi W suggested... And follow up with my suggestions in response to your private messages. Quiters are losers. Winners don't give up. I know you are trying your best, and you know there are alternative solutions

[Greg_1111]

Kane might be asserting his dominance over your duaghter and your boyfriend. But i noticed you said that you had to "coax" him into the kitchen with a treat. No coaxing with treats. as soon as he starts the jumping up and biting after being told not to do it, he's marched into his crate with a leash on, and then ignored for at least half an hour. Then let hime out. if he does it again ( he probably will) then back he goes immediately. Eventually he will get the message. It's great to be giving treats, and playing and having affectionate moments with your dog. But you don't "coax" them, you tell them. That's how it works. if you present yourself as subserviant, they will run with it. It's natural. Be the leader, and eminate that role

[German Vanegas]

Originally Posted by Greg_1111

... No coaxing with treats. as soon as he starts the jumping up and biting after being told not to do it, he's marched into his crate with a leash on, and then ignored for at least half an hour. Then let hime out. if he does it again ( he probably will) then back he goes immediately. Eventually he will get the message...

I personally don't like the use of the crate as a punishment tool. The crate should be a place for the dog to feel comfortable, secure and relax.

[Greg_1111]

I used to use another room or bathroom. But many people seemed to worry about damage to the room. It's true,, the crate shouldn't be associated with punishment. I have an open crate upstairs in my house. Mine sometimes just hangs out there. Other times, I leave her there with a padlock on it if I can't take her with me on a job. I don't want anyone to steal her or have her hurt if there is a break in. I had a very persistant nipping and mouthing problem at 16 weeks old,, I brought in a trainer and he showed me the bathroom technique. It worked very quickly. I suggested that method a while back and got some negative responses regarding damage to the room. My post was probably a compromise. In a perfect world,, I would use a remote room or a bathroom for the correction. I have never had any damage done ( I doubt a 14 week old puppy would do any damage). and this method worked very quickly.

[eva247]

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

Judi, that story was great - I had read it before on a search. You are sooo right, I didn't enforce the corrections properly from the beginning and now, this is happening. I wish I could turn back the clocks but I can't.
I am trying to find a behaviourist at the moment to see what I can do BUT at the same time, if things continue to get out of hand I cannot put my daughter at risk and so, will have to admit defeat.

Is there any form of testing to check for bad temperament? or is it down to the behaviourist to determine?

[poohbearsmom]

Originally Posted by eva247

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

Judi, that story was great - I had read it before on a search. You are sooo right, I didn't enforce the corrections properly from the beginning and now, this is happening. I wish I could turn back the clocks but I can't.
I am trying to find a behaviourist at the moment to see what I can do BUT at the same time, if things continue to get out of hand I cannot put my daughter at risk and so, will have to admit defeat.

Is there any form of testing to check for bad temperament? or is it down to the behaviourist to determine?

The behaviorist should be able to determine, through various tests, where your boy is coming from upstairs.

Keep trying to find one, good luck. :)

[Canadianrotti]

I just wanted to give you a ray of hope as well. We had some serious agression issues with our first dog about 4 years ago, I did not know what I was doing and had to learn a lot the hard way. Caesar is a Dogue de Bordeaux which by nature is a fairly relaxed dog, never gets to excited. However, he is a very dominant dog and is always chalenging to be top dog, even to this day he still pushes the boundry to see how far he can go. We had to stop going to a leash free park because it was just feeding his dominant ego. Every time we went to the park it would be a non stop battle for him to establish dominance over the other dogs.
When he was about 4-5 m/o he became very agressive towards me and my sister (who I own our house with) and we were heading for big trouble and even had thoughts about giving him up. We were fortunate in that our training school has 1 on 1 lesons and we spent the money to spend an hour with a trainier and it was the best money we could have spent. Not only did we get the advice (many have given the same here), but he showed us several situations and how to react to them, and we went throught them together.
The point is, you obvoiusly love your dog very much and will do anything to keep him in yor life. It took us a few months of working with Caesar every minuite of every day to get him to realize that we are the top of the pack. He (as Kane will) tested us every day to see how far he could go. The key is being consistent and never letting him be the top dog.
I know how hard it is to live with a dog that you love soooooo much and it tears you apart to have them acting so badly, BUT YOU CAN DO IT!!!

[cryjay]

Eva,

My youngest rottie is just 15.5 weeks old now. A few weeks ago he thought it would be cool to go ahead nip and bite at everybody especially my two young kids. I done everything with him that I was ever taught or told and it didn't seem to work as you had stated even with my pup (his name is Cain also )it seemed to make him come back even harder. After exhausting myself, and feeling as though I had done something wrong with such a young puppy I observed the way his sire and damn corrected his mouthing behaviour and followed suit. It took me a couple of tries to perfect the technique but I have shared it with everyone who has been in contact with me re4garding my pups. It has worked miracles with everyone so far. No I do not know if this is a new technique but it was one I was never informed of. I had to use it on Cain 3 times and since then he will still mouth sometimes when playing (afterall he is a pup) but he is very submissive to me, my children and everyone else. He hasn't bitten anyone since. I hope I can descibe this right but here it goes;

By the way this will not hurt the dog nor will you need much of anyforce for this technique.
Next time he goes to bite or does bite take the palm of your hand and just put enough force to place you whole hand on the side of his head leading your fingers down towards his mouth but they will be on the side of his mouth. You have to be willing to walk with the dog if he starts walking because you do NOT want to lose your hand placement. Hold your hand there and very, very gently lead the dogs head to the floor. Once on the floor he should probably be on his side and all you have to do is just keep your hand there utnil he relaxes. Once relaxed wait an extra five seconds and then quietly walk away. If this is done correctly it should take about thirty seconds from start to finish because they should submiss almost immediatly. Now don't be surprised if it takes a bit longer for your dog his first couple of times because he is older now. But as I have stated before this should NOT hurt him in any way. And you are only using enough force to actually hold you hand against his head and mouth area.

Good Luck and keep us updated on him.

Crystal