Problem please help

[dnj90]

I have a male that is now 6 months old.He has always been a people puppy.Just recently he has devolped a problem with my 9 year old.If Thor is say laying on the floor and my son walks by him he starts to growl.Last night he went to pet him and he growled at him and went to snap at him.I dont understand whats going on because we never had this problem with him before.My son would take him for walks,would lay with him,would play with him all with no incident.The one thing both my wife and I noticed is when anyone else would walk by him it was no big deal,but everytime my son would walk by Thor would stare at him and watch where he went till he was out of sight.My son says he hasent done anything to warrant this action from Thor.Since he is off from school this week I asked my wife to have my son feed him all week under her supervision.I am hopeing Thor will associate my son as the one who gives him food and there will be no more problems.Am I on the right track with this?This behavior is obviously unacceptable and I want to fix this without further incident.Please give me some insight into this problem.We really dont want to have to give the dog up,but we are also not going to risk my son being hurt.He is the youngest of the kids and no one else has a problem with Thor.Thank You for any help.

[Patty1231]

I'm sure there are more experienced here who can contribute on this behavior but in the meantime I suggest you not allow your son to be alone unsupervised with the dog. I'm not saying your son did anything, but would he really admit it if he did - could have been an accident or something he didn't even realize? Human nature. Another suggestion - no rough-housing with rotties! My son learned this lesson the hard way (he's 19) and has a much more difficult time getting Rocco to listen to him because Rocco looks at him as a playmate rather than someone of authority. Consistent correction and training should improve this situation. Make sure the dog knows this behavior is not acceptable.

[papa bear's mom]

i'm no expert by any means but have encountered a few things like this with our rescue papa bear. the hand feeding him all his meals by your 9yo is a wonderful start. ;) that will help your dog learn that good things come from your son and that your son is higher on the pack ladder than the dog b/c of providing the food. also i would suggest that you have your son go with you and your dog to obedience classes and have him (and your other kids for that matter) play an active role in doing his obedience/basic training manners b/c that will create a bond as well between your dog and your son as well as build respect for your son as a leader above your dog. i would tell your dog to knock it off too in a stern voice when he growls at your son, even if he is just walking by him. keep a close eye on thor and if you see him even eyeing up your son, i would say, don't even think about it, and focus his attention then on you. (i use MINE if i see papa eyeing something up and looking like he is thinking of pouncing/growling/snapping, etc.) just my thoughts. this is what i would do if it was my dog. good luck. nip it in the bud is the smart thing to do before it escalates. :)

i'm sure you also do this but always supervise your kids with your rottie just to be safe. i know many dogs look at small kids as small animals and will prey upon them. my rott is awesome with my brother's three young boys but they are always supervised to be safe.

[lblax]

Originally Posted by Patty1231

Another suggestion - no rough-housing with rotties! My son learned this lesson the hard way (he's 19) and has a much more difficult time getting Rocco to listen to him because Rocco looks at him as a playmate rather than someone of authority.

dogs like to ruff house just have rules and yuou start and stop the play /simple

dnj90 your dog is mor in likely treating your son this way because in the dogs eyes they are about the same place in the pack ... i would say since he isnt challanging or feeling threatened by anyone else he probably isnt a rank driven dog as such although he could be and your son could be his 1st rung on the ladder to the top... but i would guess that his problem lies in not seeing you or someone else as the true pack leader and this can be conquered through obediance... the dog iself doesnt need to feel he is low man on the totem pole how would you like to feel that way?? but a dog that has true leadership respects the others in the pack that are under the leaders protection

[MAMA-LOVES]

I went through the same thing with Rusty and my 9 year old twins. My kids know the NILF rules by heart and practice it consistantly. The growls have stopped. We all take turns feeding him and making him work for treats. They never get on the floor with him because they have learned to not go down to his level. Rusty does not get on the furniture or on the bed. That is a place reserved for us humans. My kids know to show him respect and he returns the favor with trust and obedience. The kids know he is not a big huggable stuffed animal but he is a great play pal when they want to burn off extra energy. I still would never leave them home alone with him since he weighs twice as much as they do and it's just not worth the risk.

[Judi W]

Being a youngster, he does not feel up to challenging adults, but is thinking he could push a child around.

I do not think one should put the burden of attempting to be dominant to a dog on a child. They simply do not have the presence for that and the dog knows it. That is setting the situation up for failure as the dog matures even more. In one year, your dog is going to be quite large and close to adulthood, your 9 year old will still be a 9 year old child. Instead impress upon the dog that you will dictate how he is to treat people - all people and also that your son is under your protection with no doubt about it. In order for you to have that authority, you must engage in on-going formal training. If you have not been doing so, start now. The rule is, the dog does what the master adults allow it to do. No less, no more.

[jbach]

I totally agree with Judi W. But I may have missed something in the original post. Is there any type of correction going on while you are observing your dog growl and watch while your son walks by? If the dog gets no correction, then he assumes it is proper to behave in this way. Just a thought.....

[JBK]

Originally Posted by dnj90

My son would take him for walks,.

Just to clarify, were these walks supervised by an adult??

[dnj90]

To all those that are responding, thanks for all your help and insight.

Judi W-What kind of formal training would you suggest?Regular obediance classes or something diffrent?I started to look into the obediance classes in my area.

JBK-My 9 year old is always suppervised when he is with Thor :)

J Bach-As far as the reprimand goes he was put in time out when this happens.

[Luvs]

Originally Posted by dnj90

J Bach-As far as the reprimand goes he was put in time out when this happens.

A time out is not an effective correction. Your boy needs to know in no uncertain terms that he should NEVER growl or snap at your son. Put him on leash when he is around your son so that you can give him a good correction when he exhibits this behavior.

[papa bear's mom]

luvs had a good suggestion - having him leashed to give him a collar pop and firm no when he does this i'm sure would help.
also i would just enroll him in a puppy kindergarten class to get started since he is rather young. you can progress on up thru classes then as he gets older. i still feel having your child hand feeding thor and working with you in obedience classes as well will help your dog to see that your child is above him on the ladder and shouldn't be pushed around like a littermate. i believe everyone in the household should be above the dogs in the pack ladder even if they are kids. kids need to know the rules of consistency with dogs, regardless of the breed. it also helps them learn to respect dogs as well and learn responsible pet ownership. JMO. good luck - happy training! it's a lifelong thing, for any dog, not just a rott ;)

[lblax]

Originally Posted by lblax

. but i would guess that his problem lies in not seeing you or someone else as the true pack leader and this can be conquered through obediance... the dog iself doesnt need to feel he is low man on the totem pole how would you like to feel that way?? but a dog that has true leadership respects the others in the pack that are under the leaders protection

by judiw=Instead impress upon the dog that you will dictate how he is to treat people - all people and also that your son is under your protection with no doubt about it. In order for you to have that authority, you must engage in on-going formal training. If you have not been doing so, start now. The rule is, the dog does what the master adults allow it to do. No less, no more.

by luvs A time out is not an effective correction. Your boy needs to know in no uncertain terms that he should NEVER growl or snap at your son.

same advice differant words your dog does not need to be dominated by or stuck below your child in the pack he needs structured obediance for you to establish yourself as the leader and as with any other leader that deserves respect he will in turn respect you and they ones under your umbrella

[dnj90]

By structured obediance, I take it you mean formal obediance training?If so, I guess I'm on the right track by finding a Trainer.Would you all tend to agree?

[Judi W]

Dogs do not sit in the time out room and ponder what they did to get there. A correction is immediate. A correction for threats of aggression is immediate and fierce. A parent of any mammal species actively protects its young. So, to put it in perspective. Imagine that someone is getting ready to put a lit match in a kerosine can that is sitting beside your child. Your response would be immediate and it would be meaningful. It would be impressive and there would be no mistake that you will not allow your child to be put at risk.

When you see your dog looking at the child with that kind of thought in his mind, you use a strong voice and strong eye contact and likely take him by the collar and give him a shake to let him know you are more than a little displeased.

Training. Our KPT classes start with the pups about 14 weeks old and they are finished with that level by 6 months. 6 months is a bit past the KPT classes and ready for what we call puppy beginners where more serious work is started. Without training, your dog has no reason to think he has to listen to you and that will especially apply as he gets older. These dogs are strong bodied and strong minded and bond best when worked and trained. They accept leadership easily when it is offered, but if it is not offered, they will assume it themselves as they mature.

You will need to ask your training club what level of beginners would be appropriate. A regular beginners would likely be just fine. Many a 6 month old starts with regular beginners when they missed out on a KPT class. Not all trained dogs come out of KPT.

You dog is exhibiting bullying behavior with your young son. Doesn't mean he isn't a good dog, it just means that no one has made it clear to him that this is a really big no no. That is your job. Having the son feed the dog is fine and dandy, but it still does not mean the won't bully him. All it means is that the dog will see him as a food bowl. It is your job to establish that he is to treat people with respect.

[Burnsway]

Originally Posted by Judi W

Having the son feed the dog is fine and dandy, but it still does not mean the won't bully him. All it means is that the dog will see him as a food bowl. It is your job to establish that he is to treat people with respect.

JudiW could not have said this more clearly. Having your child feed the dogs, treat them and even train a bit can help but these dogs are not stupid. They know a child can not enforce leadership.

Every once in a while my dog gets this look and attitude, I just can feel it and its the look I'm gonna challenge that child and boy that looks gets wiped off my dogs face real fast......... :D

It doesn't happen too often but it does happen. The reason it happens is my dog is not stupid and my dog knows my child(Age 11) can not hold the leadership.....therfore I must.

Same with my Senior dog who can no longer fight for her rightful spot. I must instill in my younger dogs head that even if they can win that spot........It isn't going to happen on my "SHIFT" which is 24/7........ :D