First Post - Serious Advice Needed

[Velma And Charlie]

Hello,

This is my first post here, and I never thought it would be of this nature. I have a six month old rottweiler puppy named Charlie. He is one of four dogs in my house. I also have a Boxer, and my roommate and I each have one Chihuahua. I have always loved dogs of all kinds and have never discriminated against any breed - of course I heard all kinds of things about Rottweilers, but I've always believed the behavior of the dog is a reflection on the owner, not the breed. Now I've come to realize that there are good and bad mannered dogs in EVERY breed.

I brought Charlie home when he was 4 months old. There were two puppies left in his litter, and he was the bigger of the two. A really cute, roly poly chubby little guy that just stole my heart. The family that had them had a little girl who is just three, and I watched them play together. I was convinced he was a dog with a stable personality. Then I got him home.

The initial problem was something I thought I could work around, and work with. Food aggression - I hear it's quite common. At first, feeding Charlie separately from everyone else was no big deal. And if that would be the solution to the problem, it would be something I could certainly deal with. But it's grown into something much worse. As my roommate put it "I've never known a dog that is so selfish." He wants EVERYTHING for himself, whether it's his or not. If Charlie is standing by Pasdar's (my Boxer's) empty food bowl, and Pasdar happens by, Charlie goes after him. Charlie likes to jump into the bathtub and try to lick water from the faucet. If Pasdar comes into the bathroom when Charlie is in there, he barks, snarls, and runs him off. So I started keeping my bathroom door closed. Charlie discovered that my roommate also has a bathroom with a bathtub in it. There is a baby gate up that we put up to keep Pasdar out of her bedroom, and Pasdar has always respected that boundary. It means nothing to Charlie. He jumps right over it, terrifying my roommate's cat (although she kind of deserves it, she's scared of her shadow) and going into her bathroom. Last week when I went to pull Charlie out of her bathtub, as I lifted him out, he swung around at me and put one of his teeth halfway through my thumb. Took quite a while for the bleeding to stop.

Now I feel like I'm facing a brick wall I don't know how to get around it. Pasdar and Charlie run and play, but it's gotten to the point where Charlie will take a hold of Pasdar's leg, or some other part of his body, and growl and snarl until Pasdar has to cry for help and I have to separate them. When I first brought him home, it was a lot of rowdy playing. I know the difference between rough dog play, and crossing the line to where someone can get hurt. It seems every time they play now, Charlie is crossing that line.

This afternoon we went to give them new toys, one for each of them. It doesn't matter that they both get one, Charlie wants whatever Pasdar gets, and he won't share anything with anyone. As a result, all the toys seem to belong to Charlie. Only about an hour ago, Charlie had a toy in his mouth, as he growled and snarled and wouldn't let go, Pasdar was yapping at him and it took both me and my roommate to get the toy away from him. And this time my roommate is the one who was bitten. Not bad and not hard, but he did go after her, snagged her on the shoulder. It wasn't an accident as he tried to get the toy back - he went after her.

I'm so torn on what to do with him. I know he's my responsibility. I want to do right by him. I really don't want to put him down - I wouldn't be able to live with myself. But I also have a responsibility to my other dogs, to myself and my roommate. We shouldn't have to live with an animal we can't control. And it would break my heart if one day he hurt, or even killed (remember, we also have two Chihuahuas) one of our other pets.

My roommate and I are giving serious thoughts to trying to find him a new home, or get help from a resue. As I said, I know he is my responsibility. I would never place an ad in the paper and just try to pass him off to anyone who wants to buy him. This is about placing him with someone who can help him. Any and all advise is welcome here.

[Bucky's Mom]

There are SO many issues here - I hope one of our more experienced members will be able to help you - Welcome to the Forums

[MARYDVM]

You haven't mentioned the most important thing in a Rottweiler puppy's life - training. The behaviors you are describing are typical of a dominant young dog trying to establish himself as leader of the pack. And he is including you and your roommate in the pack. That is why you get bitten when you interfere with what the boss (Charlie) wants. This can be corrected with extensive and rigorous obedience training, but you have a lot of established behaviors to overcome.

[Velma And Charlie]

Thank you -

I have raised many dogs. This is my first Rottweiler. I understand pack status and all of that. He doesn't listen. We tell him the same thing over and over again. He gets a "time out" when he doesn't listen (which is most of the time). When he is let out again, he just goes back to whatever he was doing previously that got him in trouble. He doesn't care what we do or say. He has decided that he's the boss, and nothing seems to make him understand that's not the way it is. I've never had a dog behave this way, which is why I'm so baffled. I don't back down from him, refuse to show fear even when he bites. The fear I do have is for the safety of my other animals.

I will admit he's from a "backyard breeder." He was living outside in a kennel, so he had no "house manners" or any discipline up until that point. He was already 4 months old when we got him. I don't want to pass the blame, but I have wondered if that plays a part in the problem. Kind of like the formative years of a child, if certain things are lacking, there will be behavioral problems down the line.

What can I look for (if there is anything I can look for) to try to determine if this is just "puppy tantrums" or something more serious? My Boxer was a stubborn little butt at 6 months, and he's the sweetest dog in the world now. But he never had a mean streak, a defiant streak or a vicious streak like Charlie shows.

[spidey]

Telling him something over and over again is not training - if he was trained and he respected you as a leader, he'd do as you asked - he either doesn't understand what you want or doesn't feel he has to listen to you. Either way, you need to get into formal training classes like yesterday, and you need to plan on staying there for a few years. Call local obedience clubs (the AKC website has listings), find one you like, and get into classes. You have a smart dog who needs a leader, you clearly haven't convinced him that you're the leader, so he's decided that he is. Obedience classes and daily work with him are really your best option (frankly, EVERY dog can benefit from obedience classes and regular work, but for a smart working breed like a Rottweiler, they are simply not optional). I'm not saying this as any kind of slam, but a good breeder would have explained this to you long before s/he agreed to place a pup with you - obviously you can't change that now, but please accept that you and your dog both need training, and the sooner it starts, the better. No matter how much dog experience you have, classes are always a good idea, and since you're clearly feeling overwhelmed by this, you need to start working with a professional right away, because this situation is only going to get worse if you don't take charge right away. While you're looking for classes, search here for "NILIF" and start implementing it immediately ("NILIF" stands for "nothing in life is free", and it's a straightforward, fair and humane way for you and your roommate to take back the role of leader in your house).

[excellrott]

If you can't start classes very soon, do a search on NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free). This will give you a start on treating Charlie like a dog instead of the boss.

Welcome and good luck!!!

[Velma And Charlie]

Well, what about suggestions to keep him from mauling - or possibly killing - one of my other dogs in the meantime? It's getting to the point where I have to keep him separated from the other dogs in the house all the time.

[spidey]

The only safe thing to do is keep them separate - crate him while the others are out, crate them while he's out. Same-sex dogs will often fight, sometimes to the death, so this actually may not be something that will ever change, unfortunately, you may always have to keep them separated. Are he and your Boxer neutered? This won't solve the problem, but it may take some of the edge off (and there's really no reason not to neuter him, unless you plan to show him).

[Mojave's Mom]

Originally Posted by Velma And Charlie

Well, what about suggestions to keep him from mauling - or possibly killing - one of my other dogs in the meantime?

Members have answered this question already. Start training immediately. Do all the research your eyes can stand on this forum. Get yourself to classes ASAP or hire a private trainer to come to your home. Separate the dogs in the meantime and don't give Charlie anything he's going to want to bite your head off for until you learn how to control him.

[frontierrots]

where do you live? I may know someone whocan help

[Velma And Charlie]

Keeping them permanently separated will not be an option. If it comes down the that, I will have to find Charlie a new home. Neither are neutered (I do understand the differences that can make) but Charlie is going in soon. (We're getting ready to move in a couple weeks and I thought that would be a good time to take him in.) Pasdar is not neutered on the advice of his breeder because he is "show quality" and he may breed (he is just now two years old).

Does anyone have experience in how much neutering could (or could not) change Charlie's attitude towards Pasdar? Or is that kind of like flipping a coin?

[Velma And Charlie]

frontierrots - I am in Austin, TX.

[Mick Trainer]

Like others have said you have many issues. First thing you should do is do a search here under "hierachy", "dominance" and "Nilf". There will be a huge swag of information there to help you. And whilst that is printing pick up the Yellow Pages and start ringing to find a professional trainer that performs private lessons in your house and who understands, has experience with dominance aggression between dogs, and is not afraid of training dogs with such problems (if they say "oh you have to put him down" hang up the phone as without seeing the dog this is showing their fear). There is simply to much information and actual practical hands on training that you are going to have to perform that any advise here will not go deaply enough into the problem. Yes he is your responsability and now that responsability requires you to find and work with a professional dog trainer. Where abouts are you located? Maybe someone here will be able to recommend a trainer in your area.

If you are concerned about a bite/fight incident now then you must seperate the dog until the problem is getting sorted.

Hope that this helps,

Mick.

[Velma And Charlie]

And if I can't afford to hire a personal trainer? Sounds like most of you think this is beyond "normal" problems if a professional has to be called in.

[Mick Trainer]

Neutering can indeed be flipping a coin (many others will not agree) but in this case I would think it would definatly be worth a try especially if the other dog is staying entire. The difference in the way the view each other could be seriously altered by neutering him. As too how it will effect his behavior towards you chances are it will not make much difference. Behavior Modification Training will make the difference here.

Mick.