One dog attacked the other

[wendyl]

I have 2 beautiful spayed female rottweilers. Katie is 5 and was adopted thru Rottweiler Rescue 4 years ago. Sierra is 4 and was adopted from a litter at 5 weeks old. For 4 years, the girls have gotten along very nicely. In fact, Katie has been a mother to Sierra...even cleaning her face and ears.

But, a month ago while on our daily walk, Katie viciously attacked Sierra and would not let go of her neck. Sierra had a few wounds, but nothing serious.

We watched the girls like a hawk, and everything seemed fine at home.

Last week, we went for another walk, and Katie attacked Sierra again for no apparent reason. I tried so hard to break up the fight but couldn't. Both dogs were injured and hospitalized.

Neither dog has ever shown aggression toward us or anyone else. Although stupid on my part, I was in the middle of the fight, but did not get one scratch. (Lucky, I know).

Katie will be getting her "E" collar off Friday, and I am very worried about another fight. Right now, she can't do much with the big plastic collar around her head.

Can anyone help me find answers to why Katie would do this? Or, how we can avoid another incident? She is such a mellow dog most of the time.

It would break my heart to have to get rid of one of them!

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[Judi W]

The why is two, same sex, same age grouping. This is cautioned against because it is not predictable that they will get along throughout life and in fact the weight is that they will at some point decide they want to kill each other. When that happens it is not going to go away.

Since both incidents occured during a walk did it not occur to you not to repeat the double walking? I doubt that is going to solve it as there will at some point be some other stimulus, but perhaps not. You will need to be very vigilent and please do not leave them together unattended.

[spidey]

Same-sex, similar-age dogs often have problems with each other, and it tends to be much worse in terms of severity of attacks with bitches. I have lived with two males who had to be separated (and I believe Carina43 on this board does as well), and it was a stressful and expensive (in terms of vet visits) enough experience that I will never again own same-sex, similar-age dogs. In my opinion, your only options are to keep them completely separated 100% of the time, or rehome one. It's been said many times that dogs fight to make a point but bitches fight for keeps, and it tends to be true - now that they've started physically attacking each other, odds are that it will only get worse from here. Sorry. :( People may tell you that training may help, but it very rarely does, and you're running a very real risk of more vet visits at best, and at worst, ending up with one or both being dead. Do not underestimate how serious this is, bitches especially kill each other under these circumstances all the time.

It's not an aggression problem per se, it's a problem they have with each other - if one is rehomed as an only dog (preferable), or with a male of preferably a much different age (at least four years older or younger), there may never be another problem. These sorts of things tend to be specific to the dog or bitch they live with (and are rivals with, because of the similarity in age), however, I'd be cautious around other dogs anyway.

[TrishB]

So sorry that you've found yourself in this situation. But Judi and Spidey are right.

The only way that you can protect both dogs is to keep them seperate, 100% of the time. No, you'll never be able to have them together again.

As you've already seen, they break out in fights for 'no reason'. Therefore, you will not know when one is about to occur. Therefore, the only way to be sure is to never put them together again.

It can be done - having two dogs in the household that do not interact - but it is difficult. You'll have to sit down and do some soul searching as to if you can truly expect this of yourself. If you feel that you'll resent it (2 x the walks per day, 2 x the exercise per day, 2 x the training sessions per day, etc.) - then you might want to consider rehoming one.

It will be heartbreaking - but if you resent them, they'll know it. Also, if you can't dedicate yourself to the same amount of interaction you have with then now, but individually from now on - it isn't fair to either one of your girls.

I don't envy your position - please let us know how you decide.

[LavenderRott]

Having been to Carina's house several times, I can tell you that keeping them separated is very challenging. And everyone in the family must be committed to this. Any lapse in diligence could be very dangerous.

[marisa]

Whenever we're not at home, I keep the dogs separated, that is my 13 yr. old GSD and the heinz 57 stay in one room, door closed, the rott has the rest of the house, but often she gets to stay in the room - alone. We decided this would be the best thing to do since on different occasions the rott attacked the mixed breed with, I'm sure, the intent to kill her (the blood-curdling growling that was coming from her I shall NEVER forget). Since that terrifying day I bought a hot shot. Haven't had to use it yet, and hopefully never will. Guess I should have listened to my mother ("Never get two bitches, they'll try to kill one another...") Keeping them separated actually has not been such a difficult thing to do, though I must admit that every morning I call my husband from the hospital and ask/remind "Are the dogs separated?" (Yup, I'm still psychologically traumatized!)
Good luck to you:)

[Carina43]

Ouch, I am sorry you have to go through this. As noted, I have two males who must be kept seperate at all times. They cannot even SEE each other without going into a rage. The others are correct - training won't solve this.

One practical suggestion I can offer - keep some pepper spray, or sopmething similar, on hand in case of another fight (odds are, you will have another fight...perfect vigilance is very difficult.) You can use the search function to look for terms like dog fight, there have been several discussions.

marisa - I remember the thread about your situation. Glad you are finding a way to keep them apart!

[Anne]

Can someone tell an Australian what is a Hot Shot?

[Carina43]

Originally posted by Anne
Can someone tell an Australian what is a Hot Shot?

Never heard the term either - but I am guessing some sort of pepper spray...?

An additional note, here. Don't count on a blast of water from a hose to make an impression on two seriously fighting dogs. We tried this & may as well have been a fly pi$$ing on them for all the difference it made. I doubt lemon juice or vinegar would be real effective either; at least I wouldn't count on it when there's a danger of the dogs killing each other.

From everything I've read, pepper spray is extremely effective and won't do permanent damage. In fact, I was once pretty disabled by it (was too close to a brawl at a festival when the cops intervened) and though I was basically blinded & streaming from my nose & eyes I was just fine an hour or so later.

[Anne]

Pepper spray, mace, etc., is illegal in Australia. We can't get it. Only the police are allowed capsicain spray.

It's illegal for us to carry any type of weapon to protect ourselves in an assault too.

I would love to be able to carry pepper spray to administer to snarling, growling dogs on the loose when they come up to my leashed dogs. Mind you these loose dogs often are trailed by their owners half a street behind calling out to their dogs to 'come back here Muffy'. Muffy never responds though just keeps coming towards us. AARRGHHH.

I asked one woman yesterday to put a leash on the damn dog. Her response was "She doesn't need a leash"!!! I simply told her that when her little vicious dog gets attacked by a larger on leash dog to blame herself, not the leashed dog. Trouble is my Rottweiler would be blamed if she did attack. Fortunately she does do what she is told and I put myself between her and the loose dog.

[RottiMomCT]

I had a 4-5 yr old foster bitch who was very similar in attitude with our Thelda (who was then about 7 yrs old). She came back to rescue on 9/11/01 and I was asked to foster her. Hubby and I were heading out of town on 9/13 (originally planned for 9/12 but her went to NYC)....so she had to stay in the kennel for about a week.

Anyways...she comes to my house, I knew she and Thelda would be 'talking' to each other, so foster dog was always on leash in & out of the house, and she spent her time downstairs with us and Ben.

It didn't matter...one day both of them decided it was 'time', and attacked the other. I was able to get them separated, no damage to foster girl, but Thelda had some good punctures to her neck which healed nicely after a few weeks.

Immediately thereafter I then began taking foster girl out the front door, with a baby gate at the top of the stairs so all Thelda could do was bark at us while we entered and exited. I told everyonei nthe home NOT to take foster girl out of her crate for any reason unless the house was on fire or other emergency - it would not kill her to be crated for the hour or so between mom in law and myself coming home (as it was she was crated for 6 hours a day)...wellllll...mom in law didn't listen, or forgot what she was otld, and i come home, go to let the dogs out (Ben and foster girl), and Ben is upstairs, foster girl is nowhere to be found, mom in law is laying on the bed breathing like she's having an asthma attack and says nothing to me about anything until I ask where the huge canine tooth (whole thing, root and all!) on the living room floor came from .

She says she LEANED the gate against the stairs, went to take foster girl out and she went up the stairs and the girls attacked each other. She was home alone, and DAMNED lucky the other 4 dogs we own didn't jump in to her rescue or to join the fight! It was Thelda's canine tooth that was knocked out of her mouth, and both dogs went to the vet the following morning to have about $500 worth of surgery. Needless to say, I was NOT happy, and the following weekend my foster girl went to another foster home (obviously!) and was subsequently adopted by foster mom after a year in her home.

Ben and my mom in laws male who are about 2 years apart in age have clashed but it is because mom in laws dog is a huge dominant male in the wrong home (he'd be fine if they DID anything with him but driving 10 minutes to training classes once a week after they've worked all day is apparently too much for them... ...but I can do it and they wonder why ben is so well behaved!). Every time they are in the same room, mom in laws boy will get his hackles up and growl at Ben, who will stand a little taller (and I immediately tell them to knock it off in the 'I mean it' voice)...they stop, but I wonder what they do when I'm not around? THAT is what makes me nervous, because the in-laws don't stop his behavior.

As for the off lead dogs not going away - carry a squirt bottle with 1/4 water and 3/4 lemon juice or vinegar - give the dog a good shot in the mouth or head if you can, and reward your dog for not eating it ;)

[marisa]

The hot shot is a device designd for cattle. It is available in 2 "strengths". I bought the mild one. It is a long stick with two prongs at one end. it is battery operated. A quick push on the button and it'll give a shock. According to my trainer, whom I trust completely, you should only use it as a last resort; it will not kill or badly harm the dog, but the dog will definately feel it. It cost me around $60.00. Around here many people let their dogs run loose and for a time we had two rottweilers terrorizing the neighborhood until the authorities told the owners to smarten up. Still, whenever we go for a walk, I take the hotshot with me. Besides, it may come in handy should a shady fellow get some bright idea:D !

[samanthac]

I so hate to say this, but if it were me I would place one of the dogs elsewhere. This is very serious. That is two too many fights and in such a short span. I've seen this happen so many times. Two same sex dogs get along just fine and than whammo one day they try to kill each other. One of my friends had two males, father and son, that got along fine and then one day there was a fight. After that they tried to kill each other every chance they got. She had to keep them in seperate wings of her house and had to be very careful that they never saw each other. I have another friend recently who lost her two female Rottweilers through an unfortunate slip up that allowed them to get to each other.

Two females are the worst and they play for keeps. No matter what, they will spend the rest of their lives trying to kill each other on sight once they get it in their head that they hate each other.

I know other people who do it, but trying to keep dogs from killing each other once they have it in their head is very tedious business. One teensy mistake and you have a dead dog.

I am not trying to sound dramatic here, but being in this position once myself with two dogs, the best thing would be to place one elsewhere. Its no life for either of the other dogs being confined and it would weigh heavily on your concious if something did happen to him because of a slip up.

I am so terribly sorry for you. Unfortunately there are just some things that we cannot control.

[K-9Girl]

So sorry that you are going through this...I know that you love both of your girls very much. About a year ago I rescued a female rottie from a next door neighboor that wasn't caring for her anymore. The female rottie was the same age as Lucky (my 4 yr. old alpha female). Both were dominant females. At first everything was fine and everyone got along just great. Then after about a couple weeks Lucky and Annie (that is what I named the rottie) got into several fights within just a few days. I immediatly knew what I had to do...I started looking for a new home for Annie. I loved Annie with all my heart, but Lucky was my priority...she was my girl first. I was also extremely careful because Annie could have seriously hurt Lucky. I ended up finding Annie a wonderful home with a family that had an older male rottie. She is now doing wonderful......It was hard at first, but it was the right thing to do. From this experience I know that I will always have one male and one female.

Please keep us posted, good luck :)

Sara

[TrishB]

It's because of threads like this that I will always alternate the sexes of my dogs. I can see a bitch in my future - in about 2 - 3 years.... :)