Two Babies

[zeejay77]

Originally posted by zeejay77
I guess in the end you just have to use common sense and try things out as there isn't much info/advice on the subject. There are a couple of books on multiple dog households floating around... I guess that speaks volumes about the idea;) .

I Wasn't trying to sound like all trouble is done and all's been figured out. I'm just saying that since not much info is available, better off using common sense and the materials avilable geared toward one dog... than taking theoretical contradicting advice from people who have never done it. Even with highly regarded professionals, there seems to be VERY differentiating opinions about many things.

[tilerspop]

I've got 4 at home, Two pups and two adults (as posted below). The best thing we found having two pups was when we got the second one we got to sleep all night through. They wore each other out:D We've had multiple dogs for so long that it's hard to imagine not having them around.

[Beckysmom]

Originally posted by Peter Chasey
Hello,

I've been lurking for about 3 mos., which is when my wife & I adopted Tara, a very energetic Rott / Dobie mix.
Three weeks ago, the lady who runs the rescue asked us to foster Schautz, a 4 mos. old full Rott, while she helped out an aunt who had a stroke. Schautz and Tara got along so awesome that by the time the aunt 's recovery was extended we were almost happy because got to keep him a little longer.

After a week apart, we adopting him and it'd be cool to get some advise from the people here about some of the more difficult things to watch for with two doggies. Both are in kindergarden, we are kennel training them, & they've got all their shots.

Tara is 7 mos. (21.5 in @ withers) 43 lbs.
Schautz is 4.5 mos. (22 in @ withers) 45 lbs

Thanks for your help. I've already got some very helpful advice here, so a general public thanks for that stuff and a personal heartfelt slap on the back for anything you can tell me while I'm still the biggest one here and sane.

Pete

Best wishes on your two dogs. My advice--keep them bonded with the humans more than with each other. Don't let them form a gang of two or when you are no longer the strongest your sanity will be much tested. That they get along well is better than the reverse in most ways, but is also where your problems may stem from.

Keep them in training always. Do lots and lots of training. Do not stop with basic obedience. Find the best training class you can.

Support whichever is dominant in being dominant so they don't get into hierarchy wars. That is, dominant as to each other. The humans need to be the leaders of both dogs. Sometimes this changes over time.

Let them have theri own of items--they may choose to share, but better to have their own bed, own toys, own bowls, than for everything to be a likely battle for resources. Well, it still can be a battle for resources, but at least if each can eat from own bowl it is less likely --and less likely to end up with one eating everything while other gets skinny.

Use the kennels, crates, etc. as needed. Do with each dog what that dog individually needs. Could be they need different foods, even different training methods etc. Look at them as individuals rather than as "the dogs".

If it is possible to have a different primary trainer, handler for each dog that can help, but at least plan to spend time every day working each dog separately. Bonding with each dog separately.

You can use the other dog, play time together, or special time with you as a motivator sometimes. you can certainly use it as a distraction when you get to that level of training.

I have experienced multiple dogs and having done so would preferentially choose to do it where one is already trained up to high degree before getting number two. Especially with rottweilers, which have a particular tendency to bond with each other to the point of becoming behavioural nightmares. Failing that I would try to put as much into training each dog separately if I had two at same untrained state at same time as I would if I had gotten them more separated in time and training stage.

[Beckysmom]

Originally posted by zeejay77
there seems to be VERY differentiating opinions about many things.

"differentiating" is probably not what you meant but is correct.

People tend to differentiate between novice and experienced owners. Between multiple dog households where the dogs are almost same age, size, breed etc., versus where they are different ages, size, breed, etc.

However your assumption that all who urged you, Zach, not to get the second pup were speaking from theory is incorrect. My common sense says you should have a track record of raising one dog well training etc. before you take on two at a time. So apparently common sense is in the eye of the beholder or something.

That there is little written about the subject does speak volumes about it. so does the fact that a number of the serious and newsmaking maulings by dogs have been by mini-dog-gangs (two is enough to form a gang) often owned by young adult owners. Males more often than females.

[zeejay77]

Originally posted by Beckysmom
"differentiating" is probably not what you meant but is correct.

Lol. What I really meant to say was different yes. :p

Originally posted by Beckysmom
People tend to differentiate between novice and experienced owners. Between multiple dog households where the dogs are almost same age, size, breed etc., versus where they are different ages, size, breed, etc.

Yes. We are STILL 100% in agreement about this.

Originally posted by Beckysmom
However your assumption that all who urged you, Zach, not to get the second pup were speaking from theory is incorrect. My common sense says you should have a track record of raising one dog well training etc. before you take on two at a time.

I wasn't assuming anything dear. This was my experience of spending some time trying to find a trainer in my area. I got such a verbal melee of BS I ended up wondering who's telling the truth, is there an absolutely right way, only one way? When asked who had actually raised littermates or siblings, most said they hadn't. For the most part, there seemes to be 2 mojor schools of trainers (conformation vs protection/working)... both dismissing the other's methods as outdated or shee shee poo poo. Both contadicting the other. Then there's still others yet that fall somewhere in between. Because of the confusion I don't have a one-on-one trainer at all yet. Call me crazy, but this sounds more like politics than anything.

I always have, and still do maintain that getting a second puppy was not a good choice for me. However some like to use their ever-so-powerful "pre-concevied notion filters" to take out of my posts what they feel like to discussing on the forum. I'm a big boy, no hard feelings. I understand, more so than ever, that communication breaks down easily via this media. It cannot transmit your body language and tone of voice amongst other things.

Originally posted by Beckysmom
So apparently common sense is in the eye of the beholder or something.

Well... should probably be in the eyes of the most beholders... you know, so it can be called "common".:D

Kidding aside though, it is somewhat in the eye of the beholder, as not everyone has the same goals... and the blanket doesn't always fit over every unique situation.

Originally posted by Beckysmom
That there is little written about the subject does speak volumes about it. so does the fact that a number of the serious and newsmaking maulings by dogs have been by mini-dog-gangs (two is enough to form a gang) often owned by young adult owners. Males more often than females.

Not much I can say here. The stats speak for themselves. I am young, male, and have a (gang) of dogs. I guess that makes me a "high risk" or liability. Better be ever so vigilant then

Cheers,

Zack

[Beckysmom]

LOL.

Originally posted by zeejay77
I got such a verbal melee of BS I ended up wondering who's telling the truth, is there an absolutely right way, only one way?

No. Of course not. And yes, there is a lot of politics. But you only need a trainer who will fit (temperment, style) with you and each of the dogs--could be one trainer, could be two. (Just as sometimes children in same family need different school programs. And similarly, Montessori might be great for one kid and not for another. Catholic school might be great for one kid and not for another. A schutzhund club might be great for one pup, clicker training might be the best for the other. Or maybe the local kennel club program would be best for both. Look at the dogs and assess what they need.) It should not matter that the trainer is not familiar with raising siblings... The dogs need to know the basics as individual dogs. And whoever you find, no, it will not be perfect, and that person will make mistakes too. But a good trainer from any system or school of training is likely to be of more help than nothing at all. A bad trainer can in fact be worse than nothing, so do find someone good. But don't try to find perfect cuz it doesn't exist. You can praobably get leads to good individual trainers in your area if you ask about that on this list (or "Training")

My trainer does raise siblings (GSD's) for police etc. work, and for ones that don't make the cut for that just as pets.. He makes much use of crates and kennels so that the dogs can be separated. (Has a van with multiple crates fitted in. for example.) All the dogs (clients' dogs too) are trained to understand commands as the name of the dog followed by the command...such that the name of the dog is really part and parcel of the command. EG "Rover, sit." "Fido, stay" "Fluffy, come". Part of class exercises for the more advanced dogs involve having an individual dog being given a command different than the dogs around that it has to follow. Or all dogs on a stay but each individually called out of it, and needing both to have that one only respond to the right incantational cue, and not to have all the others respond.

Yup, be vigilant! Get those furry guys into a training program (or two) and keep them in training for life.

[zeejay77]

Ya I didn't mean to thrash the local trainers in my area either. I was just frustrated because the most expensive upper end ones had differing opinions. I'll be sure to make a post on the trianing forum to see if anyone knows any good ones around.

Aside from that I have been trying to re-house one ever since. I found 2 perfectly good homes, but my girlfriend doesn't like the bratty kids (hyper boys) at one place, she does't like my other friend or her husband much either for that matter.. but still good homes I'm 100% sure. I think it's getting to the point where it may not be a great idea to separate them permanently.

I have approached the breeder a couple of times, but the result is always the same. "What's seems to be the problem?". And there isn't any (YET) so I feel kind of dumb. They claim they will take one back should a problem arise. Still up in the air for now I guess.

thanks for the replies.