Bitch on bitch aggression

[MontanaRott]

I have been doing a lot of reading lately and came across a passage in one of the many dog books, that stated in the authors opinion, the reason bitch on bitch aggression esclates more often then not, to a physical altercation, is that a bitch does not recognize submissive signals. And that dog on dog aggression mostly is just noise and posturing, that more often then not, does not escalate to a physical altercation, because they do recognize the submissive behavior. Now if that is true, why are there not fights in a wolf pack among the females? Why does it appear the wolf, male or female knows those signals? Is this faulty reasoning or have we bred that ability out of our domestic dogs?

[Wrath]

Domestic dogs are definitely much weaker at reading submissive signals. I'm sure this is because their survival doesn't depend on functioning in a pack as wild dogs and wolves do. If you depend on your packmates for hunting success and breeding you learn how to resolve differences without killing each other. It's not that we've bred the ability out, we just haven't bred FOR it. I have read that if a dog is truly going to attack, that it's a silent action. All the barking, growling, posturing is an attempt to prevent an actual serious altercation.

[Judi W]

Well, dogs are about 20,000 years past wolfs, and their behaviors are not the same. The pack acceptance of unchanging status until someone gets old or dies as in a wolf pack is not instinctual in the dog although it is more highly developed in those breeds that are developed for working in packs. (hounds, etc.) I don't believe it is not that bitches do not recognize submissive responses, it is that they often are not accepting of settling for the under status and hence the challenge is not usually "settled".

We've discussed same-sex aggression and especially bitch to bitch aggression often here and all are pretty much in agreement. Many bitches live together peacefully. My household does not ever have same sex in same age groupings whether bitch or dog. You will also find that there is quite a variance depending upon the breeds involved. You will often find that the Rottweiler who might not at all tolerate another Rottweiler of same sex, same age group will usually completely ignore challenges from what they consider "lesser" breeds, ones that are not comprable in size and mental strength.

In other words, studying the wolf does not answer all the questions about dog behavior.

[MontanaRott]

Thanks for the perspectives Judi and Wrath. This is something that has been on my mind lately and then when I read the passage just made me more curious. We have a friend with a neutered male mix, who is a lovely dog most of the time. Then he gets around a female and lunges and really tries to get a fight going. He only does this with females. So my curiosity just went from there. Thanks again for the responses.

[rottlove]

I am caring for a female rescue right now and watching the dynamic closely. I think she is about 6 months older than my 17-month old Viva girl. Intererestingly, it really has me on my toes as an alpha leader and has earned me more respect/better behavior with Viva-my-teenage-rebel. The initial sound and fury has subsided to a pretty orderly routine. You wouldn't believe what a social climber the rescue is! Poor dear! Militant NILIF around my house these days. :)

[rottlove]

I should add that the rescue is a spayed healthy mostly-rott. Anyone out there need another dog? She's smart and eager to please the leader.

[dolphin]

I have been reading what you all were talking about and I have been worried about that for quite some time now.

I just got a 2 month old female rott about 2 weeks ago and I'm having the best time with her. However I have a 6 month old rescue mostly yellow female lab and have been looking for a *GREAT* home for her but have become very close to her in the 3 1/2 months that I have had her.

My problem is if I can not find a home for the yellow lab will my rott and her not get along with my rott gets older? Right now they are two of the best friends and always there for each other, I have NOT had any trouble out of either of them. But will I when the rott gets older?

Just wanting to make sure.

[Judi W]

There is no way to predict that as you well know. If you are there in person and can see and evaluate their sociability and dominance, you are the best judge. Personally, as I said, I do not have same sex in the same age groupings.

[poohbearsmom]

Judi,
What do you consider an age grouping, within 2 years? 4 or 5? Just curious....

You will often find that the Rottweiler who might not at all tolerate another Rottweiler of same sex, same age group will usually completely ignore challenges from what they consider "lesser" breeds, ones that are not comprable in size and mental strength

I see this often in my big boy. He will bristle ringside at the other "big" boys, but seems fairly oblivious to a little guy steaming ahead at him.

I have had fosters pups in the house, as well as my own pups. Pooh is always very welcoming to any boy that crosses the threshold, however, any female, whether 9 weeks old, or 3 years old, will get the royal bitch treatment from her. She will not be giving up the title of "kitchen princess" any time soon.

Elisabeth