New rottie mom needs help!

[Jadesmom]

We decided to get a puppy for my two year old son to grow up with. I have always loved the way rotties look, their loyalty, and their intelligance. Needless to say we got a rottie pup. I have done all the reading on the breed that I can stand and still I haven't found anything on her # one bad behavior. Anytime my son sets foot on the ground she chases him back up onto the couch. It is not in a vicious way, but still bothersome.

I also have tried everything to get her to quit biting. She has a number of chew toys that we alternate, I have the pennies in a can, and I have been trying the Lound Ouch for a month and a half. Nothing seems to work. Do you have any suggestions I could use all of the help I can get.

We started puppy training classes last week I can only pray that it will work.

[Beckysmom]

Training = my number one suggestion. I hope it works too!!!!

How old is Jade now--surely not 10 weeks anymore?

You have your work cut out for you with a pup and toddler at same time.

I would keep the pup on a leash at all times when the child is around the pup. Does the child understand instructions well enough to follow them? Make sure that chasing and biting do not happen by not allowing it. And make sure that the child is good to the dog, as well as that the dog is not hurting child. Never leave them unsupervised. Never.

don't let the dog chase child up onto couch by use of leash, and once dog has learned some commands by using commands too. Probably best will be contrary commands--dog can't chase if it is busy sitting. Also encourage the child to not move in ways that are likely to result in chasing (generally dogs only chase things that run, or anyway, move fast and excitingly.)

You might want to put something yucky tasting (like some vinegar) right on the child (and maybe on adults too) so that the pup won't want to bite him.

Chew toys (possibly all of one type that dog really likes, so that it will understand that only one type of thing is okay to chew--can still alternate for flavor changes) in abundance to redirect pup to the moment needed. Leaving pup in safe room and going out for half a minute or so to make the fun stop if s/he starts biting. .


The "ouch!" thing is often done as progressive training from first stopping hardest bites downward to even very soft bites. How old was pup when adopted and how hard are the bites?

I got "my" first dog at age two, and it can be wonderful, but also tough to make sure everyone is safe. I survived into adulthood, and the dog lived into her teens. Just to let you know it isn't impossible. I think the dog had a pet door to an enclosed safe area, and I had a bedroom, so each of us had a way to get away from the other and I think that helped. It was also not a rottie puppy, which I believe also helped.

There is a book specifically called something like "How to Childproof Your Dog." And I was interested in videos on training dogs for children, and someone had recommended Ian Dunbar's Training is Child's Play. While two is young for training, maybe that video would help all of you.

[Jadesmom]

Beckymom,

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Jade is only 11 weeks. We got her when she was 6 weeks.
My cousin got a female pup from the same liter. Despite them being sisters and the same age, they are like night and day. Her pup has had no training and still is the most gentle lover you ever could meet.

[moondog]

Does your cousin's puppy also have the added stimulation of a toddler in the environment? Kids, just by being kids, can really spark the energy in a puppy. I agree with Beckysmom that the best route is to keep her leashed when your child is up and about and not to allow her to chase him back up on the couch. Each time she succeeds at that, she is learning that she is in control of the environment and that is not something you want her to think she can do.

Keep a leash on her and when she gets excited at his toddler actions and goes after him, say "Ahh! Ahh! No, you don't!" and redirect her to a toy. Play with her and the toy to show her what is okay to play with and praise, praise, praise her for playing with the toy. I think it's really important to let them know what they are not allowed to do, but just as important to immediately show them what it is they ARE allowed to do. Puppies have a ton of energy that needs to be burned off, so just preventing an action only answers half the question. Do both. Prevent her from poor behavior and follow it in the same breath with an activity that is permissible and encouraged. Be consistent and she'll figure it out. :)

[Beckysmom]

Ah, she is really young still. And you got her a little early for learning bite inhibition from littermates. Is cousin around where pups could have playdates with each other? Might potentially help with burning off excess energy and learning more social behaviours from other dogs (eg bite inhibition)--could also have negative effect of more hyperactivity from stimulation or the easier pup learning more of the more difficult behaviours.

I agree with needing to teach the RIGHT acceptable behaviours not just what you don't want (to both child and dog!). And need to find a way for Jade to use up her puppy energy in more constructive ways.

It would be great if she could start learning to retrieve now, since that would be a safe thing for your son and you (jointly--he's too young to do it alone) to play with her. Or maybe hide and seek with objects if she is inclined that way. (Could start by easy placements of food or treat for her to find.) Bet your child has lots of excess energy too, trouble is you don't want him to look like a chew toy, or prey to her. There must be something that will work both energies at once without danger, but I am not sure what.

[gracemichael]

Your puppy was really young when you brought her home. Six weeks is way young. I think puppies need to be with their mother until they are at least 8-weeks old. This is just my opinion. They need to learn the socialization skills from their mother and litter mates. My daughter is 3-years-old, we brought Bear home when he was alittle over 10-weeks. I made sure to let him know where he was in the pack order. With simple things, such as feeding my children first. Also it is up to you being the leader of your pack to put her in place. I know this is going to sound crazy, but when Bear first came home and he would do something that was not allowed, I would bite him on his jowls. Not hard mind you. My breeder taught this to me, and it represents the way his mother would discipline him. Also putting him on his back, while telling him no. Make sure she looks you in the eye, and wait until she looks away. Eye contact is extremely important. I would do this immediately when she chases your child, and have your child stand there with you. There is never a reason to hit a dog, no matter what. Bear is now 8-months old, and he goes to the playground and plays with all children. I often have him sit for a few minutes, since he gets so excited about playing. I cannot emphasize how important it is to socialize her. Bear has taken more than his share of pulls and pokes, and I 've had to be firm with my daughter on how she treats animals. He now follows her outside. He will sit right by her side while she plays in the sandbox. I've taken Bear into the video store, in the car, to the bookstore, just about anywheres that will allow him to come in. This is changing since he is getting big. One more thing is that have my daughter give bear treats. She will tell him to sit, and he does. It is amazingly cute to watch the two of them. He out weighs her, but he will do just about anything for her. She will tell anyone that Bear is her best friend.
Gracemichael

[Wrath]

Please don't bite your dog on the face...good lord. Am I the only one who thinks that's shakey advice? I'm not a big fan of the alpha roll (holding them on their back), I've heard too many things against it. We did do that with Jaxom as a pup and no harm seemed to come of it but probably no good either. We had more success with other techniques like hand feeding, restricting his access to furniture and our bed, etc...typical alpha establishing exercises.

I missed how old your son is, but seems like he's playing with the pup. I would imagine that he crawls off the couch, the puppy dashes at him, and he screams and dashes back up on the couch. This may be cute now, but when your puppy hits 5 or 6 months, she's going to be in a major awkward stage where she's way to big for her brain, and chasing the child at that point is VERY dangerous. Our nephew came to visit us when Jaxom was around 6 mos, and of course he was running around with typical 4 year old exuberance. Dashing about, screaming in piercing high picthed tones, basically doing an excellent impression of prey. Jaxom LOVED it of course. He loped around behind him and before we could stop him, he jumped up and planted his paws in our nephew's back. His newfound bulk sent our nephew sprawling into the furniture and busted his lip open. They were both just playing but the damage was done. I'll spare you the horror stories of children left alone with 3 or four of the family pets in the backyard.

Your child needs instruction as well and shouldn't be left in situation where you can't immediately intervene between him and your dog (or any dog or that matter). See if you can get your child to get of the couch in a calm manner and not dash back up because the puppy chases him. I think teaching them safe games to play is a great idea, especially retrieve as it redirects your puppy's prey drive to a toy rather than your child, but your son should never be allowed to play with the dog unsupervised...very important.

Good luck with the classes, I'm sure you'll get a lot out of it. :)

[spidey]

Am I the only one who thinks that's shakey advice?

No sir! There are far better ways to discipline a dog than ridiculous and dangerous things like biting it (frankly, I can't think of anything sillier or more hazardous than biting a dog). Alpha rolling is also dangerous. This kind of dog training theory is extremely out of date, and I do not know of any good trainers who still recommend it (the new Monks of New Skete book explicitly advises owners NOT to use the alpha roll, which they recommended in their older books, they now feel that it's far too dangerous and that there are far more effective, less dangerous training methods - they have almost an entire page telling owners not to use the alpha roll and warning of the dangers of it).

You are not a dog, you are not capable of the range of communication a dog is, so don't act like a dog, or your dog may think that all he has to do to move up in the world is dominate you like a dog. IMO this kind of dominance just encourages the dog to be physical right back at you. We have big brains, we should be using them to train dogs, not our teeth. In a physical contest, the dog will win, so don't get into one.

Put a leash on the puppy at all times when your child is around, give the puppy a gentle leash correction (a tug) and an "AAH!" when he bothers your child, do not EVER leave the kid and the puppy alone, do not allow the child to run and make lots of noise around the puppy, crate train the puppy so that your kid can have playtime without worrying about the puppy, and work on the "OW!" and ignore method with the puppy yourself. Do a search here, there are many good threads on this topic.

IMO, you've really got your hands full here, while it may seem like a nice idea to let a young child and a dog grow up together, what it often means is that you've got TWO time-intensive babies to bring up, love, spend time with and train at the same time, instead of just one, and that can mean that one of them may not get as much time as it needs (the puppy), if you don't keep in mind that the puppy needs time, too. If you haven't enrolled in puppy classes yet, I suggest you do so right away. The puppy needs one on one time with you every single day for training and bonding. It will be a lot of work, but I'm sure you can manage it. Good luck to you. :)

[PooPooPie]

Call me a ninny, but I don't think a Rottweiler is the right puppy dog for a 2 year old boy.

[gracemichael]

I knew I was opening a huge can of worms. For me this has worked, and with my last rottie it also worked. Bear is 8-months old and really gets along with my children. Our last rottie we had for eight years, until he died of cancer. Both of my dogs have done wonderfully in public and with people. I also had two hybrid wolves, before our rotties. Sorry if I offended anyone, my way might not be right, but none of my animals have ever had a problem. Even putting my 148 pound wolf on his back ( he would even do this on command, go figure). Imagine I weigh in at 110, soaking wet. I have loved everyone of my animals, and they have been a great part of my life. Bear is our new guy, it took me two years after Donteay died before I even considered purchasing our pup. I also sought breeders who invest alot of time and quality in their dogs. Disposition is very important. I feel that what you say is exactly right for some, thanks.
Gracemichael

[PooPooPie]

I'm guilty in that I still think of the 6 year old boy in my puppy class who couldn't control a Beagle puppy. I couldn't imagine him with a rottie. And I guess I can't imagine a 2 year old with one either.

I'm not at all saying you are wrong for having a Rottweiler (or a wolf hybrid for that matter) around a 2 year old, just up for a big challenge, and I hope he grows up with a great comapnion and friend in Bear.

[gracemichael]

PooPooPie,
Thanks for the kind input.
Gracemichael

[spidey]

gracemichael: I'm just pointing out that thinking changes from time to time as new evidence is looked at, and that physical punishments, especially those based on "alpha" behaviours, are no longer considered by most to be the best way to train a dog, and they are unquestionably downright dangerous in many cases.

I'm not criticizing you, at one point this was the way many trainers thought, but these methods have been replaced for most trainers now with better ones, we know more about what works and what doesn't now, this sort of thing has only been studied in detail for a few years. I have no doubt that these methods have worked for you, but if other methods have been shown to be just as, or more, effective, and are less hazardous, I don't see that being flexible and moving with the times is in any way a bad thing. :)

[gracemichael]

Hi Spidey,
I am always open to learning, and any types of suggestions. I never really thought that what I was doing was physical punishment. But, you are right that it was contact, so in-fact it is physical. I'm a strong advocate of never abusing our children or animals. I interpret their love as being the most unconditional love that there is. The wonder that they show, reminds me how important all things are. Thanks for your thoughts.
Gracemichael