Strangers in our House

[jessaroo]

Emergency!!
My parents are visiting for the week and I can't get Kaiser to settle down around my father. He's fine with my mom, and I understand that men get the worst of a dog's territorialness. I expected that when they first arrived, and I tried to introduce everyone in a happy way, dad petted Kai (tho he does not like dogs near him, licking him etc.) Kaiser seemed to accept that at first, even looked somewhat submissive at the first introduction, but since then, every time my dad gets up to move from where he was sitting or comes into the room, Kai barks and charges at him. Dad's not helping much, throwing his hands up, and as DNeff said to Miabella, Kai succeeds in driving off the intruder because my father is understandably concerned!
Consequently, Kai spends most of his time outside and sleeps in the laundry room. When I let him back in the house he runs straight to dad (much to my father's chagrin) to check him out but he only barks at him when he gets up.
They'll be here for a couple more days. Any help out there? Am I expecting too much from Kaiser?
Jessaro

[spidey]

Hopefully some of the experts will give you advice, but I suggest you keep him on a leash at all times in the house and give him a SERIOUS leash correction and a "NO!" when he does this. You are most certainly expecting too much of him if you're not correcting this behaviour - how is he supposed to know that it's unacceptable if you don't show him that it is?

He's not allowed to be territorial with people you've invited in, it's not HIS territory, it's yours - he's not allowed to decide who's allowed in YOUR house. You need to change your thinking here, he's not protecting you, he's being bossy and dominant, he thinks he's more important than people, including you, and this is not a happy place for ANY dog to be, let alone a Rottweiler. It's YOUR decision, not his, and he has to accept people you allow into your house. You must get a handle on this, or it can lead to other problems. Kai thinks it's his decision, you need to show him in no uncertain terms that it's not. Charging and barking at people in your own home are not acceptable behaviours! I'm not surprised your dad's "not helping much", he shouldn't have to put up with this, and this is your problem to deal with! I'd also put him on NILIF, it sounds as if he's been allowed to get a bit more full of himself than is wise.

[jessaroo]

Wrong!!! I never said I thought he was protecting me. I KNOW this is unacceptable behavior - and it makes things tense for everyone. I just wanted some advice on what others have done in this situation. Sure, I could give him a collar correction but if you believe the likes of Dr. Nicholas Dodman, you don't answer aggression with aggression as it only exacerbates the problem. His suggestion is desensitization to the issue.
As for the NILIF program he's been on it since I got him several months ago. It may be time to up the ante and require more than a simple sit or down for privileges. He's a rescue dog and I'm still working on his "kinks".

[Rott-Wiley]

Jessaroo, You don't need to get agressive with Kaiser but you do need to convey to him that he is not to decide what is a threat. You didn't say how old he is -- that is a consideration in this issue. Correcting a learned behavior is always harder then shaping a new one so it's going to involve more work on your part but handled consistantly he will get the idea this is not the correct thing to do. Good luck with him.

[sparklemom]

you don't answer aggression with aggression

I don't see how a leash correction is aggression. You shouldn't hit the dog or hurt the dog, but a correction doesn't hurt, just lets him know who's boss. Otherwise, what are you going to do, ask him nicely to stop attacking your father? :)

[poohbearsmom]

Do NOT allow ANY human to be at risk of a bite from your dog....

Do you have a crate for your boy? When he is not confined, he should be leashed, and corrected the SECOND his body language tells you he's about to assert himself in this most unacceptable way.

A leash correction is NOT aggression. It is simply a correction. Done and over with, and then I'd probably slap a few quick obedience commands on him to remind him who's in charge... once the requested behaviors have been complied with, a quick atta boy... then I'd put him up, leaving everything on a good note.

A lot of times, it's difficult for "outsiders" to understand what we go through to get our dogs trained and socialized correctly. There's still a lot of what I would consider "old school" folks out there, that don't even believe dogs belong in the house. There's also a lot of folks who do not feel comfortable around dogs, and especially dogs of our breed. Sometimes it's better for dog AND human visitor if arrangements can be made for the dog to board at a reputable kennel during these times... This way, all your hard work is not flushed down the toilet because of someone's reaction to your dog and visa versa. Just a thought. As much as I love my animals, I would never dream of having a guest in my home feel unconfortable because of my beasties. I'm sure it DOES upset your dad to have a male rottie rushing him like he was in the opening lineup of the SuperBowl..... food for thought..... ;)

He's fine with my mom, and I understand that men get the worst of a dog's territorialness.

HUH? How did you come about this understanding?

I'm extremely interested in reading some of this Dr. Dodman's material... could you point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance for the information.

Elisabeth

[moondog]

You're not in a boxing ring with your dog where two equals box it out to see who comes out on top, so I don't get your aggression with aggression comment. If you are not the boss, you are headed for one heck of a mess. If you are the boss, put your foot down and TELL HIM SO! He needs to have respect for you AND those you invite into your home. He needs to understand that HE does NOT call the shots, YOU do! If my dog did anything like that there's no chance in hades that I would fiddle around trying to appease her. She would most certainly get a leash correction that she wouldn't forget and she would be wearing her leash 24/7 to boot until she had proved to me that she understood.

It almost sounds like you are afraid of him. If you are, and I could understand that since he is new to your family, get some hands on training help pronto. :)

[jessaroo]

Elizabeth:
I got the idea about men and a dog's territorial manifestations straight out of Dr. Dodman's book DOGS BEHAVING BADLY. That was a near-verbatim quote. And I tend to believe it's true because when I went to the home of Kaiser's previous owners, first they put me out in the backyard with him alone. He was rambunctious but never threatening. And as I was going in and out of his house taking his things to my car, he barked as I opened the door but never acted aggressively. And I SERIOUSLY DOUBT his previous owners invested much time and energy into training him.
I'm not sure how Dr. Dodman defines aggression as it pertains to a correction so I may be off base with that assertion. I do know that in his book he advises a systematic desensitization program in which you first accurately identify the cause of the aggression and then work to desensitize the dog to it. And just FYI (not saying I agree with everything he says because he makes no breed distinctions) he did say that yes, you could extinquish some of these aggressive behaviors using stronger corrections (again, I don't recall that he actually defined that) and the like, but you don't really address the underlying issue and truly solve the problem.
Thanks for all the info. I wanted to know how others may have handled the situation. I even brought this up to my obedience instructor a couple of months back, someone who has raised rotties for years, in anticipation of out of town visitors to see how best to prepare. She said that she's had a couple of dogs who never warmed up to visitors in her home and so she had to keep them separated. Not much help to me as that was not what I wanted. Realistic, maybe, so that's why I was polling the group.
The other rotties I've had we've raised from puppies and so were able to mold them and make them into what we wanted them to be. Kaiser is 2 1/2 yrs. old and I've had him since Sept. of last year. He has a couple of issues that we're working on, and making progress, but this is something that we haven't practiced with since I don't have out of town visitors very often.

[jessaroo]

Afraid of him? That'll be the day! Call me naive, call me stupid, but I wasn't afraid of him when I went to take possession from his previous owners and they put me out in the backyard with him by myself. He was almost 2 yrs. old and unneutered.
I've always had rotties and have never been afraid of my dogs, EVER. We had another who was a textbook dominant aggressive and "experts" kept advising us that it's just a matter of time til he bites someone. He never so much as put his mouth on another human being and he lived to be 12 yrs. old. And he was always welcoming of visitors in our home. So welcoming, in fact, that he let our home be robbed while we were at work.

[moondog]

Well, then. Why don't you tell him to KNOCK IT OFF?

[Beckysmom]

A bunch of ideas, not all can be used at once. Maybe something will sound right, help, or spark your own ideas.

1. If a bite seems possible, keep the dog in confinement and / or control (away from your father) at all times and get a professional to help you.

2. I agree that I would at least keep Kai on leash for the duration of the visit if he keeps charging while off leash (some dogs are actually better off leash though and settle down the moment leash is off). I would use a collar that works for that dog, such as a regular choke or a prong collar if I am giving a correction or the dog is charging, and I would correct (or let the dog correct himself by hitting the end of the leash), BUT, I would also be ready to immediately reward the right behaviour whether independent of the correction, or afterward.

3. while a head halter is not okay if there is charging etc. (could hurt dog's neck) it might be that a head halter would be different and would mellow out the dog a little and get the problem more under control in general, so the dog isn't charging. Some dogs are much better behaved when a head halter is used. (mine for example!)

4. you could attach the dog to yourself on a fairly short lead

5. I would definitely try incompatible behaviours, like put him in a down stay (if he knows that). If he breaks downstay to lunge or charge, then you can correct for the break of downstay and don't need to worry about aggression with aggression issue.

6.If you can use something that keeps your father safe, but still lets Kai charge, (like baby gate), you could let Kai charge on with your father staying there until Kai stops--then leaving. Like not letting a dog out of crate until it settles, Kai would not get your father to withdraw until he settles.

7. You could try "open bar" when your father is around. That is, Kai gets good stuff when your father is around and when he is being well behaved. When your father leaves, or when Kai does what you don't want, the good stuff ends. Since your father is also having a problem with the dog, I suggest that your father get goodies when he has to deal with the dog.

8. You could see (depending on how bad situation is, and also depending on what relationship you want dog and dad to have) whether your father can establish his own authority with dog. EG, instead of YOU doing NILIF, your DAD does. Dad gives Kai his dinner, only after he sits, when dad says to sit (you may need to be holding Kai's leash just in case Kai lunges at Dad and dinner--and don't do this if it might lead to a bite for dad). Kai gets 3 chances to sit for Dad to get dinner. If no sit, no dinner.

9. A reemphasis on two points: REWARD THE BEHAVIOUR YOU WANT. Correct the behaviour you don't want.

Also, make sure your father is comfortable with the behaviour you want. If you want the dog to go cozy up to your dad, but he wants the dog to lie down on dog bed at least ten feet away, the dog is necessarily going to get mixed messages. This may have happened when kai initially greeted your father. He may have been corrected by the way your father reacted to being licked for behaviour that, at least to you, was okay. Now he is being rewarded, as you realize, by your father withdrawing, for behaviour that you do not find okay. Maybe a discussion with your father and other family members about what is acceptable to all, and how the right thing will be rewarded and the wrong thing at least not rewarded, and ideally corrected, even if this is with words, if you are uncomfortable with a physical correction, and have everyone agree to be consistent.

Just a comment on the corrections issue with an aggressive behaviour from recent personal experience. I had a huge problem with my dog and my cats when I first got my dog (already large rescue). My first attempt with a trainer was with an all-positive all the time type. Her suggestions of no corrections to dog, only trying to desensitize and reward, resulted in great emotional trauma to the cat.

When I switched to leash correction, the dog caught on right away to what was wanted. It did not increase his aggression. The main (house) cat died not long after he started to get over his trauma enough to go near the no longer cat aggressive dog, but the other cat and the dog are now very very good friends. I would not assume that no corrections is a good thing. (That is different than alpha rolls, hitting, shaking etc., which I would NOT recommend.) If you do not let the dog know clearly what you want / don't want he has no way to know. The corrections in that case were ultimately kinder to the dog as well as the cats.

But don't forget, as soon as the correction is done successfully, and dog is then doing the desired thing: PRAISE! the dog!!! let him know what a genius he is when he lies at your feet calmly while your father gets out of chair moves about etc. And don't forget to notice and praise like crazy if the dog ever offers the right behaviour without a correction. Right now he is getting a lot of attention for misbehaviour. Could be that when he is "good" he is ignored with the visitors and all.

[chuss]

Leave the dog outside away from your dog. It's simple.

Don't be scared to tell your dog off. My dog knows when she's naughty and she knows when I tell her off and she'll crouch down and eventually lay on her back very slowly. Maybe you should get your Dad to do the same thing, he needs to show your dog that he is in control when your dog is inside.

People might not agree with me, but it's how i've been with dogs. I used to be scared, but when you act like alpha, the dog will get the picture..

My father can do it even with security dogs. He gives them looks, makes noises and it sends them off whimpering and running away..

[RottiMomCT]

I took Ben with me when we visited my Grandparents 2 yrs ago. Ben loves all people as he's never (at least with me) been taught otherwise. However, not all people love him, and he seems to know it...Grampa doesn't like dogs. Who does Ben want to spend the most time with?? You got it...Grampa! Problem solved during our four day visit by keeping Ben leashed unless we had the gates up to keep ben out of the TV room where Grampa was.

If your Dad is less than thrilled with dogs, keep yours on a leash to avoid confrontations when Dad moves out of his chair. Allow the dog to greet Dad and then get him back to you and keep him there. Don't let him get away with that crap - especially in your own home! He's telling you and your father that he does not want your Dad out of his chair and you're letting him get away with it. Knock him down a few pegs with a leash correction, a strong verbal 'Leave It!' or "NO!" and then a few quick obedience commands (sit/stay or down/stay) and end on a positive note.

[Birdie'sMom]

Originally posted by jessaroo
Thanks for all the info. I wanted to know how others may have handled the situation. I even brought this up to my obedience instructor a couple of months back, someone who has raised rotties for years, in anticipation of out of town visitors to see how best to prepare. She said that she's had a couple of dogs who never warmed up to visitors in her home and so she had to keep them separated. Not much help to me as that was not what I wanted. Realistic, maybe, so that's why I was polling the group.

Sounds to me like you already got the solution from your trainer, but it's not what you wanted to hear, so you are going to keep asking until you hear what you want to hear. Which is what? Don't worry about your dog acting out towards your father? I'm sure he won't bite him? You're not going to get that answer here. You should take this threat that your dog is giving your dad seriously and take every precaution so that he doesn't make good on his threat. And that means keeping your dog away from your dad. I don't mean to sound snippy, but there are way too many people who don't listen to what their dog is saying and that is how bite incidences occur and then then people say - see, I told you rottweilers were bad!

[jessaroo]

BeckysMom-
Loved your suggestions.
And no, I was NOT asking and asking until I heard what I wanted to hear. IMO - again because I didn't have this problem with the dogs I raised - if you're an obedience instructor worth your salt shouldn't you be able to control your dog around others in your home? I know they don't have to like one another and I'm not expecting that.