Should I be Concerned? (long one,sorry)

[camille]

I had a really rotten experience with Daisy yesterday, and I feel absolutely sick about it. First some background... Daisy is a 10 month old spayed female. I have had her for almost 6 months now. I don't know much about her first family except that she was kept in the backyard with her mom & dad for the first 4.5 months of her life with no socialization outside of the family (BYB's) with three young human children. She and her mother ran away one night and Daisy ended up in my front yard. I fell in love with her and a week later saw a sign in my neighborhood for a missing Rottie. I called, and returned her (in tears). The woman called early the next morning and asked if I wanted to keep her. I guess I had "ruined" her, by keeping her inside for 6 days, and showering her with love. I, of course took her, as I had been waiting for my perfect dog to come along for sometime, and Rotties were always on my list of favorites.

Daisy is a very well behaved and adjusted dog. We have not enrolled in a formal obedience class yet, as I have been busy opening a new business and my schedule has been a mess. We are moving to a new home in 2 weeks and have secured a trainer in the new area and will start class in about a month. Daisy and I take long hikes off leash on a daily basis as well as work on obedience both in the yard and around the block. Everyone in the neighborhood (full of Labs & Goldens) comments on how well behaved and socialized she is. Also, on our weekly visits to Petsmart I get nothing but good comments on her behavior and socialization from employees as well as other customers.

Now to the situation. I took Daisy into a local pet supply store to purchase a new prong collar. She had never been in this particular shop before, and was a bit nervous when we first got there. After a couple minutes she relaxed a bit. A woman and her husband approached and asked to pet her. I put her in a sit, and they pet her for a while, shook hands with her and gave her a couple of treats. After they left, one of the store employees, (a rather tall and buff guy) approached us (I've known him since high school), and reached out with both hands towards Daisy who was sitting at my heel. She instantly jumped up and practically atacked him! She basically charged him while snapping her teeth and barking. As soon as he jumped back, she sat back at my side. She has NEVER shown this type of behavior but now I am an absolute wreck.

QUESTIONS:
If this is the first time on any of our outings that this has happened, should I be worried that this will occur again, or wave it off as a freak accident? I feel as though she was protecting me (Daisy and I live alone, and don't see many guys), but I don't want this to become a regular behavior. IF it happens again, what should I do to correct the situation?

Sorry this is so long, I just wanted to put as much info in as I possibly could. I look forward to your feedback.

Thanks,

-Camille

[LORHEL]

I am not an expert in this situation, I know you will get some good answers though...

When you walk through Petsmart, do you let people pet her, or do you keep to yourself and just walk through, etc... I am guessing that since this guy moved fast and had both hands out, that she felt threatened... moving towards a dog like that, and not knowing all of her background... its not an excuse for her to act that way, by any means, it just sounds like it could have been a fear thing...

The problem is, she scared the guy, by lunging at him, got the response she wanted, which was for him to back off... then returned to your side...

Hang in there, and it sounds like you have done alot with this girl, I am glad she ended up with you and not in the backyard at her previous owners house.


Also... you may want to work on greetings, with men, probably right now with those you know... Ie: brother, relatives, etc.. and work your way up to a friendly stranger... however, let Daisy approach them, and no hands on her...let her get comfortable and then allow petting, or make her work for a treat, etc..

:D

[Judi W]

No, she wasn't protecting you. You were not being attacked.

Yes it will probably happen again. Be ready for it and be proactive about not letting it happen.

Any sensible person is going to back off from an attacking dog which is why you want to interupt the thought because with each success she will build up the action. If you did not give her a good disciplining when she did this it is even more likely to reoccur. By simply pulling her back and putting her in a sit you have neglected your responsibility of informing her in clear language that she was not only wrong, but very very wrong.

Make sure you are cheerful with all that you meet. That gives her the message that these are friends and not to be guarded against. This only works if she understands that you are in charge. Make sure that you are giving her "instructions" on her actions, not just counting on the fact that she is normally a compliant bitch. By that I mean, that because she is naturally amenable, you have probably neglected giving her orders on what you want and expect. That leaves choices up to her and now that she has demonstrated that she makes a bad choice, you need to remove that option from her. This is something formal training establishes, yes, even for normally good dogs. Don't wait for your classes to start for doing this.

When you are out and about, talk to her. People will approach. If she can't be approached safely, keep her out of circumstances where she might act out until you have a handle on her or make sure you interupt people coming up. Stop them, give her instructions, evaluate her body language and eye, and decide from there. I know you were surprised, but now you are warned that she is not quite so well adjusted as thought and keep working on her confidence. Her confidence in people and her confidence in you that she can obey you and you will not put her in danger and that she must listen to you.

I suspect she will be just fine. Needs some more work is all.

[cucciolone]

one of the store employees, (a rather tall and buff guy) approached us (I've known him since high school), and reached out with both hands towards Daisy who was sitting at my heel.

Hi Camille (what a beautiful name)-

I do not allow people to approach my dog this way. The pat on the head that they're usually going for with this approach can be interpreted as a dominant gesture by a dog, and my dog does not welcome it from strangers.

I've become pretty good at reading people's intentions toward my dog, judging by their body language as they draw near. If they look like the kind of people who will rush him and touch him in a way that neither he nor I will appreciate, I change course. If necessary I will swivel my body in between the approaching person and my dog, and heel him past. (With a pleasant "Good evening!" or whatever the case, over my shoulder at them.)

Some well-meaning people have little or no knowledge of the correct way to approach or touch a dog. I understand that their intentions are good, but I do not want everyone running over and feeling my dog up without my permission.

That said, you can obviously never predict every person's actions 100% of the time, which is why both training and socialization are so important. A few weeks ago, a girl that I've met very casually a few times and who had been petting my dog in an appropriate way for a few minutes, suddenly reached down, threw her arms tightly around his neck and put her head on his back while he was looking the other way. Unforeseen and unappreciated, but training got us out of it all right. And by that I mean that my dog now knows that I will send him to hell and back if he takes it upon himself to react aggressively with civilians.

Good luck!

[Rott-Wiley]

I have had a similiar experience with the girl I'm working with now except she thinks her function in life is to protect me. She was more agressive with other dogs approaching me but also didn't like people getting too close. Yesterday, while at a novice run-through training session, a women (the juge) came over to me while the dogs were in a 5 minute down stay 30 feet away. Bailey saw this and perked up like a light bulb turning on. She watched us like a bird of prey would watch a rodent but didn't get up or break position. Long after the exercise was over, some of the trainers were discussing how well the dogs had done and I mentioned that I held my breathe during the down and it was agreed that she has come a long way from when I first brought her there to work. I felt good knowing that my work with her was paying off and she is better behaved.

[korailee]

Sorry, but it's not a freak accident. If your dog lashed out once, she will do it again if the same (or similar) triggers occur. Since you don't know your dogs initial upbringing and experiences, you won't know all of her triggers, but to her there is a reason she acted the way she did. Let her know it's inappropriate but try to understand why she reacted that way. She probably wasn't protecting you (though Rotts can be very protective) because the man approached your dog, not you, when he received that response, but it sounds like the man did not introduce himself properly to your dog. Imagine a stranger treating you in a similar manner. The difference is that a dog doesn't have the ability to reason, she can simply react based on her life experiences.

Sorry that this gives more questions than answers, but since you know your dog better than anyone, you will better understand her than anyone else.

[camille]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

To LORHEL: When we are at Petsmart, I invite lots of people to pet her, men and women alike. I put her in a sit, and allow them to shake hands with her and give her a pat. That's why this experience bugged me so much. I had never seen her act like this.

I will start paying more attention to the way in which people approach her, making sure they don't come rushing at her, and hopefully I will be able to prevent this situation from occuring again. I'm also going to have her spend some time with me and my guy friends. I cannot wait to start obedience classes!!! I'm sure they will be able to move us well ahead of where we are now.

Thanks again,

-Camille

[cpalenchar]

I hope someone who knows can comment on this....


It seems to me that Camille's decided direction: "making sure they don't come rushing at her" is not complete. One of the things I struggle with remembering when I am out with my dog is *I CANNOT control the situation* (completely)-- there are 360 degrees of things happening around me and I cannot be *sure* of what is happening everywhere.

I'm wondering if maybe part of the problem is: "I put her in a sit, and allow them to shake hands with her and give her a pat". Clearly this is the safest way to approach a dog-- in a perfect world it would always be like this. BUT to make the *dog* safer in a world of idiots-- would it not be a good idea to introduce the dog to "less safe" introductions????

I know we're dealing with a dog who has shown aggression-- and I hear the other posters about making sure she is *never* pushed this far again. So for her sake, and the petters sake, she shouldn't be greeted in such a way as to trigger her again. But-- doesn't she also need her boundaries pushed? Like it's okay if someone pets me when I'm standing. It's okay if someone pets me after my mom has said hello to them, even if I don't see her give explicit permission to them to pet me? All the way up to-- it's okay if someone pets me before I even saw them-- if I don't like them, I will walk away-- NOT attack.

Hopefully someone will give a thoughtful comment to this....

-chloe

p.s. I think re-reading my post what I'm trying to say is camille should also work towards desensitizing her dog-- not just accept that there is one safe way to approach her dog and then try to manage the whole crazy world around her so the dog is never triggered again.

[camille]

Chloe,

I agree with you 100%. When I made the "make sure people aren't rushing at her" statement, I certainly didn't mean to make it sound like a permanent solution to the problem. I meant that I would use this method of introduction in public for the time being while working with some of my male friends and our new obedience class to get to the actual root of the problem. I would like her to overcome her fears and uncertainties about these situations so that she has no reason to ever have an outburst like this again. I do not want to simply avoid the problem for the next 10 or so years, and I certainly do not want to be the owner of a dog that will not allow people to approach her regardless of the way they go about it. Thank you very much for your insight. I hope this helped to clear up my intentions.

-Camille