New Timid Puppy

[serah_tesc]

Hi, my husband and I are new to this forum. We've just rescued a Rott mix puppy. He's between 10-12 weeks old and just got neutered. We know he came from a rural area, and had two brothers, and all the puppies and their mom ended up in the shelter. We've only had him since Thursday March 20th, but he doesn't act like any puppy we've ever met before. He is terrified of humans, and cowers into the corner whenever we come towards him. He will stay wherever we put him with no protest, and spends 90% laying down, if not sleeping. After he was neutered the vet told us he had swollen lymphnodes, but he doesn't show any signs of being physically ill. His lymphnodes have gone down, he eats all the food we give him, drinks water, plays by himself when we're not looking, and does his business outside on a regular basis (I know I'm dishing out a lot of details, but we're just not sure of which factors are effecting his behavior). I've never met a puppy that was so afraid of playing with humans, and so scared of everything all the time. We're taking him out once a day to socialize and experience a new situation, but we're concerned that doing this while he's so scared of everything will just traumatize him further and create a skittish dog. We don't give him any attention for moping or for doing something that we don't approve of, but we give him lots of attention for coming up to us, wagging his tail, eating, drinking, peeing, playing. Does anyone have any suggestions or advice for getting this beautiful baby boy out of his shell, and trusting his new human parents?

[alexav]

Congrats on your new pup and bless you for rescuing him! Oh, and welcome to the forums too!:D

I have dealt with fearful rescues ALOT. Your boy sounds like he was poorly socialized as a very young pup and now has to make up for it.

First, take his food bowl and put it away. Yes, you read that right but No, we're not going to starve him.;) You will be hand feeding him, for a while 'til he knows what a wonderful being you are. Toys too, should be limited to his interacting with you.

Second, teach him simple obedience exercises like "watch me", follow me, sit, down and stand, using the food as a lure, no forcing into position please. These exercises will increase his confidence level and his trust in you.

Whatever you do and whatever he does or does not do....Don't lose your temper. Take a deep breath, count to ten, take a walk, whatever....Just don't give him any reason not to trust you. One incident of "OMG Dog!" will set you back to square one.

[Mick Trainer]

I agree with Laexa's advice as too what you should do and that your pup has had a lack of early socialisation (sounds like your pup has been very removed from almost all stimulation) but also that the pup in all likelyhood has a nerve development problem which will stem from his breeding also. This is something you can do a lot of work to rectify. I have pasted threads to a number of articles which may help you in this regard.

As time progresses and depending on his progress there is much that you can do but I strongly suggest that you seek the help ofa good dog trainer or behaviorist as working closely with someone who can see the pup and it's reactions to stimulus who understands the reactions given will be of great benefit too you.

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/sho...&threadid=9288

http://www.rottweiler.net/forums/sho...dence+building

Also do a search in the archives on fear and you will find lots of information.

I have also pasted a piece I wrote on correct socialsation

Socialization Technique: Clearly with a pup moving away from the whelping box etc at this time a lot of its socialization will be done with little to no human interaction at all. However, when the owner of the dog is involved there are certain techniques and rules that should be followed to help make sure all socialization conducted is effective and positive. Many different techniques exist. This is the one that I use and recommend.

Firstly we must find an object that we wish to socialize the pup with. We then place the pup at a distance were it can see the object but is in no way showing signs of being nervous of it. Signs of being nervous can include cowering, ears back against the head, hair on back up, backing away from the object, barking at the object, growling at the object etc. When we reach the point were the pup is relaxed but curious of the object we allow the pup to become comfortable with where it is in its surroundings. (It is better if we are outside the back yard etc to already have the dog on and used to the lead and collar). Then we encourage the pup to move towards the object (tapping the ground in front of the pup, calling it forward etc not pushing the dog to move). With every forward step we praise the pup. If we see the pup become fearful we ignore the pup and if it wants to we allow it to move away from the object. This is where most mistakes are made. Many people will force a pup to hold its position. This is only creating greater anxiety within the pup as it feels that the option to run is taken away which encourages the feeling that it cannot escape the situation. Also many more people at this time will speak to their pup in a soft tone saying “It’s all right Fido, good boy (or Girl), it OK” (or similar). This is effectively praising the dog and encouraging the pup to show this sort of fearful behavior more often. The best option is to just ignore the pup. Allow it to move back and get itself comfortable and relaxed and then encourage forward motion. When it moves forward praise it once again. Quickly the pup will learn that forward motion gains praise and will move forward. With every successful encounter the pup will grow in confidence and learn to investigate new things.

Don’t be in to bigger rush. Allow the pup to take things slowly. It does not matter if it takes several repetitions to get a pup to meet or touch the new object. If you see real improvement in the pup with the object then finish for the day and start again another time.

I hope that this helps,

Mick.

[Judi W]

Since he is worried about people, make sure when you are interacting with him, you do not give him frontal appearance. Turn slightly sideways and make sure your head is turned to the side and somewhat dropped. This will help remove some of the pressure from him and make it feel safer to him to approach. You will need to remember to do this for quite some time. Don't look directly at him as that will be frightening to him. Look off to the side. He doesn't know people, so he will not be able to interpet a friendly direct look from a hostile one. By removing your gaze it will give him the body language of a friendly dog and he will have a better understanding of that.

[mickeymichellie]

Also, on the note of body lanuage, do not bend over him. Kneel down to the side of him to pet him. Good luck - the feeding by hand helps alot. If you are around the house for an extended period of time, carry around a baggie full of dog food and give him a bit everytime you walk by. When he excited about you coming torwards him and will come up to you, take the food out to people on the street and have them feed him. At first it might be really scary so bring out some especially good treats just in case. When you go out I would not have people petting him. You want to move in small steps. At first just go out and let him watch. When he is more relaxed, ask people to toss treats in his direction, and so on. Mick covered this really well in his post. Remember: it is up to you to defend your puppy from obnoxious people that could terrify him.

[serah_tesc]

Thank you all for your thoughtful and quick replies. We have been talking to so many people trying to gauge his behavior against other puppies behaviors. I very much like the idea of feeding him out of hand. We have been working with him on treats, we found his favorite called "puparoni", but he will not approach us when we have treats. should we just keep trying until he'll come to a treat? Right now he'll take it if it's right up next to his mouth, but he won't come to a treat at all if it's far away from him, or even close to us. We found out yesterday that he just adores other dogs, we introduced him to his future roomate Suga, an adult german shepard mix, and he was all over her. I guess it's all about patience and baby steps getting him to love us as much as we love him

Again thank you, all three of us appreciate it!
Serah, Paul and Sumo

[Rott-Wiley]

Another factor I'd like to ad to this thread is that this little guy is only 10 to 12 weeks old and he already has been abandoned with his mom and litter mates, placed in a shelter and all this was going on while his basic personality is supposed to be forming. All of the above advice should definately bring him around. Best of luck with him.

[Judi W]

Do not coax him to come for a treat as that will simply create conflict and anxiety for him. The more you focus on him, the more uncomfortable he will become. Keep the treats in your pocket and in an offhand way as you walk past him, offer him one without looking at him and keep on going. Same thing as he happens to venture to walk past you (which will happen sometime), slip him a treat and keep on with your business.

This dog will bond to the other dog, avoiding bonding to you, so I would very much limit his time with other dogs. You want people to be the best game in town and the only port in a storm for him and when he has a choice of another dog or you, he will always choose the other dog as that will meet his need for social contact. When he is with the other dog, call that dog to you often and offer praise and/or treat and he might follow along. Use that as a tool, but don't over do.

[Rott-Wiley]

Judi has brought up a very valid point here. The treats you are using in your training are used as a reward for a given behavior the dog offers, Not as a lure to entice them to a behavior. If your treats are used as a lure, the dog is one day going to ask "where's my lure?" prior to doing the behavior and none of us want that.

[alexav]

I'm glad to see so many others respond to this. Our power went out before I could finish my post and I was bummed! We have battery backup, but I had to post and shut down so I could shutdown the other computer too.

Judi, I'm so glad you covered the importance of body posture! Turning sideways, avoiding looking directly at the dog, and passing instead of approaching are very helpful. I try to use periferal (sp?) vision to see how close I can get before the stress level of the dog goes up a notch. I try to work just at that distance, making sure there is constant improvement.

Try totally ignoring him while pretending to play quietly with some kibble or a toy on the floor. If he joins in, hide your excitement and just continue ignoring him. Let him tell you where his comfort zone is, that way you can help him expand it. I have also found it helpful in the past to lie down on the floor in sight of the dog and pretend to sleep. Most dogs, even severe abuse cases, will come over and check you out. Just make sure you fight the urge to make a happy fuss over him, that's the hard part!;)

Originally posted by Rott-Wiley
If your treats are used as a lure, the dog is one day going to ask "where's my lure?" prior to doing the behavior and none of us want that.

As this pup overcomes his fears, I see no problem in using a treat as a lure to TEACH him "watch me", sit, down, stand, and follow me. The alternative of placing him physically into position is simply not an option with a fearful dog.

BTW, I teach all puppies basics with a lure... And believe me, my HIT Rottie never asks, "Where's my lure?"

[mmgy]

Some very knowledgeable people have responded to this post, and I'm going to take home some new info myself from here! But I wanted to say that I have a timid puppy too, but he's now 2 1/2. We have moved very slowly with him, we praise him in a soft voice, we pet him under his chin and on his shoulder, and if he wants to stay in his crate we let him. When he was very young, I spent a lot of time laying on the floor near the crate, doing little things, but ignoring him completely. As time passed I'd get closer, and leave the door open. Now if I'm on the floor he comes out and cuddles. Puppy classes have been incredible for him, even though we repeated classes till he was comfortable. It's helped him gain confidence in a big way. And, as he has aged, we've been able to cut down on the food rewards drastically.

Two things though, that we've done differently: 1--we've raised him with his sister, and four other dogs; and 2--when he was very young, I would pick him up and hold him until he relaxed, then put him down.

I imagine he was more bonded with his sister in the first months, but as she bonded with us, he followed. I think he also gained a lot of confidence from our older dogs. As for the holding, I had done that with another dog 8 years prior, and both of these dogs now are very trusting.

Be patient with him, and he will reward you with a fiercer loyalty than most dogs.

[Judi W]

I was not opposed to using a treat as a lure with a dog that needs encouragement (we're not training here but trying to teach a dog to be social with people). However, with a truly fearful dog, what I want to discourage is any coaxing at all as I mentioned - that increased their conflict and anxiety. Coaxing puts focus on the dog which increases greatly its worry. Best is to ignore the dog and do everything "in passing" or as suggested try to make something look interesting without it being focused on the pup.

This pup is never going to be joyful with people, but it can learn to be in proximity. Trust will probably always be limited to a very few well-knowns and its environment will be limited because of this, but that is OK if the owner has chosen to have the dog with those limitations. This is kennel syndrom to the extreme.

[serah_tesc]

Sumo's tail is definately wagging more often thanks to your suggestions. He definately responds with more confidence if we don't look directly at him (which is difficult because he's about the cutest thing in the world, and all we want to do is stare at him all the time ):)
He won't let us feed him his meals out of hand, but we are making use of the treat idea, and bring him treats with gentle words. We took him for a walk today, and even though he won't let us pet him, he followed right on our heels the whole time.
It is difficult to be passive with him, when our first instinct is "cute puppy, I want to play with him". But thanks to all of your help, we are learning and as a result so his he.

Thank you and keep'um coming.
Serah, Paul, and Sumo

[Judi W]

Glad to hear the suggestions are helpful. Consider it not unlike taming a wild bird. He sees himself as prey, not predator so you must always be aware of the pressure points and that means your eye and body position. A dog that works worried sheep always makes sure he is giving them the side of his body and not a frontal as well as keeping his head turned. You, in this case are the herding dog working to disarm the worried sheep.

[alexav]

Nice example Judi.
I'm working on my little Birthday Canary. He is just now realizing that I don't want to eat him and in fact it is I that brings all things good. Sad thing is, he needs his nails trimmed and that will set us back to square one, if not further... :(