Growling

[Rotty Rascals!]

Hi Everyone!

I've posted a couple of times about my 4 year old male rescue rott. He is coming along really well and has really moved into our home and our hearts :). I've learned alot reading on this forum and am so glad to be able to do that. Whiz has come a long way and is doing really well. He listens, does all basic commands ( we are working on the down), stopped marking in the house ( lol ;) ), and I am just super pleased with him.
I know for a fact that this dog was chained in a back yard, not soscailized and the people that he lived with may have been violent towards eachother:( . I have been taking the time to bring him everywhere with me. The only time he gets upset ( growling/barking ) is if he is in the back of the truck and a stranger approaches and I am not there. He is fine when I am there.
He has done really well with meeting new people. Nervous, but well behaved. The people that had him didn't have children, I do. Whiz looks to me as the pack leader. Constantly watching me and so willing to please. He is protective over me, sometimes too pushy about that. I correct him when this happens ( a firm NO and redirect his attention ).
He has gone through all the typical testing ie: laying on couch, growling when told to get off. I am happy to say that he learns very fast and only did the couch thing twice then stopped.
Sorry for the long post, here is my question. This only happens during the evening, I am not sure why. My kids and I sit and watch t.v., the dogs are with us in the livingroom. That's a full livingroom! LOL! 4 kids, 1 adult, and the three big dogs.
Alot of times Whiz will be by my side, the other dogs and kids kinda flake out on the floor in front of the t.v. Sometimes I am on the floor too. Whizzie will sit by me for a bit then get up and wander off. Then he will wander back in, look at the kids and wander off again ( usually he goes to my room which is right beside the livingroom).
This is where it gets wierd, he will then come in again and go right up to my oldest ( sometimes the other kids, but mostly her ) and be all stiff legged and growl at her ! I will give him heck and send him out of the room.
He will go into the bedroom, then come back out and do the same thing. I again give him heck and send him out. He also has his hair up on his back. Also, if the kids happen to be wrestling, it's the excact same thing, only he looks even more worried.
When he first started doing this I thought that maybe he was being too protective of me, because it was when my daughter was rubbing my shoulders. But it has continued, even if we are all just sitting watching t.v. Most of the time, it's the kids wrestling that he doesn't like, but there are times when nothing is happening when he does it.
Is he just being pushy? And why always at night? Does he not see well at night? Because he really looks at them first before growling. I know he wasn't allowed in the house where he was, and he defintely wasn't socializeed at all. Do you think he is still uncomfortable being in a social sitaution indoors?
Any insight would be helpfull as I would really like to understand this wierd behavoir. I know he listens well to me, and I don't think my children are at risk with him while I am there to correct his behavior. But why the heck is he doing this?
Other than this wierd behavior he has been great! Very affectionate, listens well, and is a joy to take with me where ever I go. He is a bit pushy ( what rottie isn't? LOL), but does as he is told.

Thank You All For You Time :)

[alexav]

Are you working with a good trainer?

Your post concerns me very much. It is difficult to interpret behaviors over the internet, but the way you describe his posture is a huge red flag to me. This guy might think that he has to put your kids in line and make them understand that he is in charge. You do NOT want that to happen.

Children present a challenge to any dog. The way they squeel, jump around, and wrestle can turn all kinds of drives on. Since this dog is lacking in the social department spending his life on a chain, and to your knowledge has never been around children, I would have a collar and leash on him when the kids are around.
If he decides he doesn't like what's happening and thinks one of the kids (pups, in his eyes) needs discipline, you need to be able to stop him.

I would take this sign very seriously.

[rottnkidd]

Firstly, thank you for rescuing this boy, he does sound like a challenge, especially in a home with children. My comments are
more from a common sense standpoint, then a point of experience. But firstly, I'd keep the kids off the floor. He may be
'seeing' them as equal, or even lesser in the pack order. I'd put the dog away when the kids have to do the rambunctious things that kids do; sounds like this boy is stressing out over their activity. He can't distinguish between their playing and fighting.
You mentioned he came from a home where fighting between family members may have been an issue. Also, I'd keep him out of the truck bed. I know people love riding with their dogs in the bed, but it's dangerous from the standpoint if you were involved in an accident. (He could be thrown from the truck) Or he may
decide on his own to leap from the truck and perhaps bite a stranger that's walking too close. Also, like alexav said, seek out a good trainer/behaviorist. Best wishes to you!
kathy

[alexav]

Originally posted by rottnkidd
Also, I'd keep him out of the truck bed. I know people love riding with their dogs in the bed, but it's dangerous from the standpoint if you were involved in an accident. (He could be thrown from the truck) Or he may
decide on his own to leap from the truck and perhaps bite a stranger that's walking too close.

I was giving the benefit of the doubt that she has a shell on her truck. Hoping....

[rottnkidd]

Originally posted by alexav
I was giving the benefit of the doubt that she has a shell on her truck. Hoping....

...and I was "assuming" that the bed was open! I apologize to
RottyRascals if was wrong! :o
kathy

[Judi W]

Back to the in-home behavior. Yes, for the time being, keep the people off the floor. They get the furniture. Keep your bedroom door closed so he does not have an area to go to and develop his attitude in. Actually close all doors so he has limited retreat areas. As this is somewhat predictable, when the dog leaves the room, knowing there is a good expectation that he is going to return with a stalking posture, I would be waiting for him. Under no circumstances would I remain seated and neutral which inplies approval to a dog. The second his head came around the corner and I spotted an attitude, I would use a lot of voice telling him "mister, you'd better not be taking that attitude in this house" Stand up tall and use a strong voice and strong body language making it clear in no uncertain terms that those are your children and you will protect them and he is not to even imply in any way hostility towards them. Put the lead on him, bring him in and put him in a down at your feet. (during the WWI, it was said "the Germans are either at your feet or at your throat")............ always makes me smile a bit. Well, I know where I want my Germans. He is treating your children badly and as leader, it is your job to let him know clearly that is not ever going to be acceptable.

So, people off the floor - all people. Doors to other areas closed and very clear messages to the dog that you are the momma and will protect your young and that he is not above them either physically or in rank.

[Rotty Rascals!]

Thank You All So Much For Your Replys:D !

alexav: Yes, I have an appt. with a trainer/behaviorist to do an evalution on Whizzie's temperment and am booked for obedience classes ( saying everything goes o.k. with first meeting with trainer ) in two weeks. People have such BAD attitudes here when the words rottweiler and problem are mentioned. I just hope I can find someone that will help me deal with this in an unpredjudiced way. I agree with you that children definitely pose a challenge to dogs, especially ones ( dogs, lol) not socailized or having had any contact with them before. I was at first shocked and confused as never had this behavior before with any of my dogs and wasn't sure how to proceed with it. I know it is wrong, and needs to be corrected.

rottnkidd: Thank you for your reply also. Whizzie rides in the front of the cab with me when I take him out. The kids and I will be staying off the floor for the time being and they will be limiting there rowdy behaior for when the dog is put away. And yes he came from an abuse home and I have such a hard time remembering that sometimes. I can't yell around him or he just runs and hides. I yelled at the kids once then looked over at him and he was under the table looking scared. I felt soooo bad:( . Yet on the other hand, he can be so DARN pushy too.

Judi W: Thanks For Your Replys Also!!! This makes so much sense to me!!! All people off the floor for time being. When he first started doing this, I wasn't sure what he was up to. Now it is clearer for me and I have started to put a stop to it. Today when he did it I stood tall and said in a stern voice " OUT!". He ran right out of the room. Unfortunatley, the bedroom door happened to be open, but when he came out again, he was being good. The one thing I like about this dog, is that he does learn very quickly. I think now that I know what he is up to, and am putting a stop to it ( along with help from the children ie: staying off floor/no roughhousing in front of the dog) that it wont take him long to understand that it is NOT acceptable. I find that when he is in trouble for something, that he will NOT do the down command at ALL! How do I get him to do this? Would it be better to have a leash put on him when he does this ( growling) and do the down stay command instead of just sending him out of the room? How long should he be staying for? Thank you so much for your advice, it's helping me see what his behavior is and how to stop it.;)

[Judi W]

Try to remember to keep the doors closed as I suggested. Yes, do use the lead and collar for that down part, but ......... as you have noticed, if he is frightened, he is not going to down. After you have sternly reprimanded him, then you must immediately become calm and firm, take him over and tell him to lie down. Don't get into a wrestling match. If he believes his life is in danger, he's certainly not going to down.

So, you will stand up and tell him "oh no you don't. You are not going to act that way".........

Then you will put on the leash and simply hold it until he settles his body language and understands that he can't flee and is not going to be beaten, then walk over to where you were sitting (on furniture) and put him down, quietly and firmly. A half hour is fine. you are not asking him to think, but rather to listen and follow a fairly simple instruction - you will be here because this is where I want you to be.

Try that.

[Rotty Rascals!]

Thanks Again Judy For Your Reply :)

I tried the on the leash and down stay. At first it worked really well. And you could really see that he was thinking " ooops, did something wrong". The first two days worked well, now he has started growling at me also!
But I noticed it is only when I bend down to pet ( he immediately gets stiff ), put my face close to his ( oops!), or basically crowd him in any way. I always makes sure that he is to sit before petting and am teaching shake a paw also. So, he has to earn his pets.
Why the turn of attitude toward me? Is he feeing threatened? Also, I've had a bit of time off, so he hasn't been coming to work with me. Maybe he is bored or cranky because of that?
I am going to see a trainer today, so will let you know how that goes;)

Thanks Again