a bite

[Cadillac_Lady]

Hi All,

I am looking for some feedback on this situation to 1.) make me feel better, and 2.) get ideas.

The situation is this, my 8 month old rottie male bit my daughter.


History - Kiko was a rescue from a couple who could not have the dog. We got him at 12 weeks and have successfully completed Puppy School and are right in the middle of Basic Obed class in which he does well. Kiko has not been aggresive before, but I have noticed that he has started getting into the 'freaky period" where he barks at pictures of dogs or a coat stand etc.

He is not neutered yet, his appt is scheduled for Jan 7th.

My daughter has sometimes played a little rough with the dog, jumping around, rolling on the floor, playing hide and seek etc. Kiko tends to get a little mouthy, but never aggresive mouthing. It is my fault for letting them play like that, and it was getting a little out of hand so we began "training games/play" only a few weeks ago, getting them both weaned off of the rough play.

Situation - Kiko was chewing on a pig ear last night and the two of them had been interacting well last night. Jasmine sat behind him and rested her foot on his back. He turned around quickly and snapped her foot and broke skin! He quickly released, I grabbed him and put him in his cage so I could attend to my daughter.....

I am not sure what I am asking, but what do you guys think abou thtis situation?? Does it mean that he is going to be a biter? Do you think it was just the situation? Any recommendations? My daughter is not freaking out, but I am just so worried for the future.

thanks for any ideas....

[RottiMomCT]

Originally posted by Cadillac_Lady
Situation - Kiko was chewing on a pig ear last night and the two of them had been interacting well last night. Jasmine sat behind him and rested her foot on his back. He turned around quickly and snapped her foot and broke skin! He quickly released, I grabbed him and put him in his cage so I could attend to my daughter.....

First - is your daughter OK?? How is Kiko??

Second - has he ever had pig ears before last night? If so, how has he acted when anyone approached him while he had one?

It sounds as if he was not happy with her putting her foot on him while he chewed his treat, and he let her know it.

At eight months old - he's still very much a puppy, and rough play of any kind without him understanding bite inhibition will lead to an eventual bite beacuse he doesn't understand when to stop. It's up to you to teach him appropriate play.

If you decide you want to continue giving him pig ears and other 'high value' items, I'd recommend either giving him those things in his crate or only when you know he will not be disturbed while chewing. PLUS, train him to give anything and everything he has in his mouth when you ask for it. Let him chew the item while you hold it, tell him to "Give" and offer a small yummy treat (piece of hot dog or something). When he gives up the pig ear, praise with "Good GIVE!"and reward with small treat. Give the pig ear back to him and repeat exercise. Eventually you want him to give up anything he has without hesitation (and he will with consistency on your part!).

Good luck - step up the training a bit - even thought not in calss - train at home (remind him what he's learned in class).

[Cadillac_Lady]

Originally posted by RottiMomCT
First - is your daughter OK?? How is Kiko??

Second - has he ever had pig ears before last night? If so, how has he acted when anyone approached him while he had one?

It sounds as if he was not happy with her putting her foot on him while he chewed his treat, and he let her know it.

At eight months old - he's still very much a puppy, and rough play of any kind without him understanding bite inhibition will lead to an eventual bite beacuse he doesn't understand when to stop. It's up to you to teach him appropriate play.

If you decide you want to continue giving him pig ears and other 'high value' items, I'd recommend either giving him those things in his crate or only when you know he will not be disturbed while chewing. PLUS, train him to give anything and everything he has in his mouth when you ask for it. Let him chew the item while you hold it, tell him to "Give" and offer a small yummy treat (piece of hot dog or something). When he gives up the pig ear, praise with "Good GIVE!"and reward with small treat. Give the pig ear back to him and repeat exercise. Eventually you want him to give up anything he has without hesitation (and he will with consistency on your part!).

Good luck - step up the training a bit - even thought not in calss - train at home (remind him what he's learned in class).

Thank you so much for the reply RottiMom! On a side note, I think we will be moving to CT in the beginning of 2003 :)

Jasmine is a little sore and is limping around, she was nervous about interacting with Kiko at first, but she is over it and isn't too worried about the situation.

Kiko on the other hand, once crated, immediately after the bite seemed very down :( He was not even interested in his toy which he has in his crate which is very unusual! Additionally, today he has been listening to me like a champ :) every command gets instant response. I wonder if dogs feel remorse??

I will definately work on the give command! Thank you for pointing that out. Yes, the ears are a new treat for us all and I just figured it wouldn't be any different... WRONG thinking.

I appreciate the feedback!

[Rott-Girl]

Sounds like your DAUGHTER needs more training than Kiko!
First of all it's very irresponsible to let your daughter get rough with your dog, my kids know if our girl has anything in her mouth...they DO NOT go near her. It saddens me when people let their kids treat the dog like a stuffed toy BOTH parties need to respect each other here and that is clearly not happening. As for the foot thing....well let's just say if my child even dared to put a foot on our dog then the correction wouldn't come from the dog first!

[Cadillac_Lady]

Originally posted by Rott-Girl
Sounds like your DAUGHTER needs more training than Kiko!
First of all it's very irresponsible to let your daughter get rough with your dog, my kids know if our girl has anything in her mouth...they DO NOT go near her. It saddens me when people let their kids treat the dog like a stuffed toy BOTH parties need to respect each other here and that is clearly not happening. As for the foot thing....well let's just say if my child even dared to put a foot on our dog then the correction wouldn't come from the dog first!

TELL ME ABOUT IT!!! I totally agree. You don't know how often I had to separate the two of them. It starts innocently and then just escalates into romper room.

Needless to say, I think she has changed her mind about the rough play, and I'm just sorry it got to this point. We had been making so much progress introducing the "training only games/play"

By the way, there was NO roughhousing yesterday and I think her intentions were to be close to Kiko....

I'm feeling mega guity over your post and since the bite last night, I know it's all my fault and I appreciate the post. I am going to show my daughter your post so she understands it's not just me trying to 'ruin' her fun (she's at the "it's all about me' stage ) but that it's about RESPECT!

Thank you...

[Carolina]

You can also print this and you and your daughter can read it to see if you are doing things right or not..

The large dog and children

It list all the things that have to be done for a good relationship between a big dog and children :)


Carolina :)

[RottieGirl86]

Glad your daugther is doing ok.

I got to agree about the play thing, it was a time bomb.

Also, dogs get very possesive about raw hide, pig ears & cow hooves. Those chewing /flavor intense toys seem to bring out more agression in domestic pets.

Definitely have your daugther work with you in the alpha department - fee the dog, training, sit command & paw come to mind. The dog needs to know it is below her in rank. I have seen this first hand once my brother introduced a 2 yrs. old male rott to a house with a 3.5 yrs old toddler.

Best of luck & Happy Holidays!

[Cadillac_Lady]

Originally posted by Carolina
You can also print this and you and your daughter can read it to see if you are doing things right or not..

The large dog and children

It list all the things that have to be done for a good relationship between a big dog and children :)


Carolina :)

VERY nice! This serves us with a great "quality" time discussion piece. Thank you!

[Cadillac_Lady]

Originally posted by RottieGirl86
Glad your daugther is doing ok.

I got to agree about the play thing, it was a time bomb.

Also, dogs get very possesive about raw hide, pig ears & cow hooves. Those chewing /flavor intense toys seem to bring out more agression in domestic pets.

Definitely have your daugther work with you in the alpha department - fee the dog, training, sit command & paw come to mind. The dog needs to know it is below her in rank. I have seen this first hand once my brother introduced a 2 yrs. old male rott to a house with a 3.5 yrs old toddler.

Best of luck & Happy Holidays!

Thanks so much! The thing that kills me is they both do well when they play the training games.... Arrrgh! They are like two teenage brats!

Anyway, thanks for the ideas and happy holidays to you as well!!

[Judi W]

Glad to see that you are learning why the child should not play with the dog as if she was a dog and I am sorry that it had to be pointed out by the dog! By rolling around on the floor with the dog she has given him the idea that she is a peer and thus he treated her like one. It is good that she is a bit nervous about interacting with him if it teaches her some respect for the fact that he is a dog not a toy. Please remind her of that when she appears to forget it or the dog will be the one to suffer. I always told my boys that if they pushed any of the dogs into doing something wrong towards them, they would be the ones in trouble and I stood behind that.

[lblax]

Originally posted by Rott-Girl
Sounds like your DAUGHTER needs more training than Kiko!
First of all it's very irresponsible to let your daughter get rough with your dog, my kids know if our girl has anything in her mouth...they DO NOT go near her.

this statemant is sad i believe giving dogs there privacy when they have that special treat to a point but if they cant go near her when she has something then what happens when a toddler goe there by accidant oops a bite!!!!!

[The Barleys]

I've never used pig ears, but I've heard a lot about the possession issue.

[lblax]

Originally posted by Judi W
Glad to see that you are learning why the child should not play with the dog as if she was a dog and I am sorry that it had to be pointed out by the dog! By rolling around on the floor with the dog she has given him the idea that she is a peer and thus he treated her like one.

i think your on the money here judi but we have played with our dogs like this for years and i have never had it lead to a bite weve broken several items and smashed heads on coffee tables ect..... and i could see an accidental nip coming during play. and it has been my experiance that when a dog takes it apon themselves to correct a pup or a human pup it can look nasty and sound nasty but they dont bite and break skin. dogs dont accidently miss when they nip at there pup they miss on purpose and when they bite they dont bite accidently either. i think both the girl and the dog need training but to say she was in the wrong by putting her foot on the dog (i'm assuming she didnt kick the dog) and getting bit is plain just making excuses for the dog. sorry if i stepped on anyones toes

[Rott-Girl]

Originally posted by lblax
this statemant is sad i believe giving dogs there privacy when they have that special treat to a point but if they cant go near her when she has something then what happens when a toddler goe there by accidant oops a bite!!!!!

Iblax, I wonder how YOU would react to someone putting their feet on you while you were having something to eat?? It's all about RESPECT and there is NO NEED for a child to be touching a dog while it is eating anyway! Not a sad statement at all you see it's called RESPONSIBILITY. Toddlers WON'T even get the chance for that "accident" to happen if the parents are watching them! Isn't that what we as parents are supposed to do?..watch our kids and dogs at all times? Or are you making exceptions here???
Cadillac_Lady this post is not to you at all it is answering Iblax's post! ;)

[lblax]

Originally posted by Rott-Girl
Iblax, I wonder how YOU would react to someone putting their feet on you while you were having something to eat?? It's all about RESPECT and there is NO NEED for a child to be touching a dog while it is eating anyway! Not a sad statement at all you see it's called RESPONSIBILITY. Toddlers WON'T even get the chance for that "accident" to happen if the parents are watching them! Isn't that what we as parents are supposed to do?..watch our kids and dogs at all times? Or are you making exceptions here???
Cadillac_Lady this post is not to you at all it is answering Iblax's post! ;)

if there parents are watching them thats a lot of ifs and im just trying to make a point as i said i belive in giving them there privacy because there is really no reason to mess with them but you said they know not to go near her and that is what is sad you should leave them alone but if you need to go to them by them or any thing you shouldnt get bit . if they cant go near her when she has something then you have a real problem