Odd response to out of sight stay command.

[Carina43]

We got Daphne from the shelter last January...she was very nervous and anxious, would piddle whenever she was approached to fast or perceived a threat - loud voices, fast movements, etc. I am happy to say she has improved VASTLY in her confidence. We don't think she had any training whatsoever and had clearly never been in a house before. She was about a year old when we got her. She has been through two beginner obedience classes, and will be staring another class next month. Meanwhile I try doing a little work with her every day to reinforce basic commands, leash manners, etc. When I get the treat baggie in my hand and ask if she's ready, she gets excited about her little sessions.


Here's her odd behaviour: She does get anxious about being left, and I'm trying to work on out of sight stays. The further I get away from her, the more threatened (for want of a better word) she acts, by the time I'm maybe 15 feet away, she's practically cowering. The minute I start to "disappear" like behind a tree, through a doorway, etc, she gets up and rushes for the nearest escape route away from me. This is clearly scary for her, and I'm trying to be as positive and upbeat as I can during the whole exercise, but to no avail. If I say "ahah!" she looks terrified...so I call her back, put her on a short "successful" stay, treat & praise and lesson is over on a good note.

I have no clue why she acts afraid when I'm increasing my distance - but unlike other dogs I've seen who are anxious about separation, she doesn't try coming TO me but AWAY from me. I really try to be gentle and positive with her all the time...it's not like I beat her or even yell at her! Any ideas?

[DNeff]

It's really hard to guess what may have happened to her in her previous life that could be causing this reaction. She could have had a few bad experiences that she is pairing with the out of sight stays. I would not consider any of her reactions to be indicating that she is afraid of you. Each dog has their own reaction to stress and fear. Running away may be hers.

The first thing I would recommend is to only do out of sight stays with a partner. The minute you are about to leave her sight, have your partner step in and treat. Depending on her level of stress (which sounds quite high) I would have them treat continuously until you come back in to view. Only step out of view for a second and immediately return. Work on gradually reducing the amount of treating your training partner does while you are out of sight. And then gradually increasing the amount of time you are gone for. Take things very very slow.
The key here is having the training partner treating while you aren't present. This begins to form positive associations with you being gone.

How are her in sight stays? Make sure you can be gone for 8 or more minutes for in sight stays before you work on out of sight stays. Out of sight stays are very stressfull even for accomplished dogs. You may want to build her confidence and skill level with in sight stays further, before progressing on to out of sight stays.

Let me know if you have any questions or need further help.
Good Luck!
Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CD NA NAJ NAC NGC NJC TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Carina43]

Taadaaa....I don't know why it didn't occur to me to have Mick do this with me, excellent suggestion! I don't think she's afraid of me...but there is clearly something about the situation or some action that's frightening to her. She has become quite confident generally, will go right up to strangers coming into the house as long as they are not loud or weird... if they are, you are right - she retreats to the "dog couch" in the office.

Her in sight stays are, well, they are improving! I can walk in circles around her, go to her, treat, and retreat agian and she is fine as long as she sees me. She does look a bit anxious, though...not very relaxed. Maybe I should just work on improving her in sight stays more?

The circumstances in which she was brought into the shelter indocate she was definitely badly neglected (left outside in December on a 4' chain with no food, water or shelter. She was tranquilized by animal control to get her in.) And probably not treated very well. Sometimes I think she's dumb as a box of rocks - albeit a lovable box of rocks - sometimes I figure a pretty bad puppyhood has permanently affected her. At any rate it takes forever for her to learn things, she often acts as if she's about to be hit if she "doesn't get it right." Maybe I'm anthropomorphising, I don't know.

I've felt badly about not doing more in training her, but she gets stressed so easily that I've taken it all quite slowly. Just FIY, she has never shown ANY overt aggression to anyone, she's very sweet and a bit submissive.

[DNeff]

I would focus your work on her in sight stays. You want to be able to be about 30 - 40 feet away for about 5 minutes or more without having to go in and treat. The more confident she is on the in sight stays the easier it will be for her to transition to the out of sight stays. You want her to be more relaxed on the stays so make sure you are treating frequently and going very slow. Up your time and distance slowly, and not at the same time. Also make sure to very gradually reduce the treating. But for now I would be treating fairly often.

If she should make a mistake, just go back in with a smile and in a happy voice, say "ooops!" (if she seems upset by this don't use a verbal at all) and encourage her to get up and move. Once she has gotten up, set her back up for the sit stay and try again. Don't use the "aaahhh" at all, since this escalates her stress levels.

You're doing great by helping her be more successful after a mistake! Be sure to continue this. Stays are slow going even for very confident dogs, be patient and keep up the good work.

Dawn
U-CD Cammcastle's Mystic Riven CD NA NAJ NAC NGC NJC TT CGC
http://members.aol.com/dplantier
http://members.aol.com/rottweilerworld

[Carina43]

Thanks Dawn! Great advice, I really appreciate it. We'll definitely firm up her in sight stays better, and try the team approach too. Poor little Daphne the "sillyweiler" will never be an obedience champion or anything, I just want to build her confidence up...she's such a sweet dog.

Love the pics of Raven, BTW - he is really beautiful and obviously having fun doing agility! I'm going to start that with Cooper in the spring when more classes start up around here.

Daphne says lick lick, thanks also. :)