Fear aggression

[RobChr28]

I had a very troubling experience with my 1 year old Rott named Molly. She seems to be very fearful of strangers all of a sudden. I socialized her alot. Now all of a sudden she is scared of people.
Yesterday I was taking her for a walk, a little kid walked right up to her. She growled and went towards him. I think if he had gotten closer she might of bitten. My obedience class starts later this month. She gets startled by sudden movements of people. People ask to pet her and I do not trust her enough to let them.

1st question. Is pet smart a good place for training Rottweilers?

Background history. I caught some neighborhood kids throwing stuff at her in the backyard. I think one was poking her with a stick.

Any help would be most appreciated. I will not give up on this dog even if I have to muzzle her all the time. She is still great with people she knows. But she doesn't want any strangers around her.

[Birdie'sMom]

I'll let the senior members answer your other questions, but I take Birdie to training at Petsmart and I think they do a wonderful job. I guess it depends on the trainer and how much they know about rottweilers, but the trainer I got is wonderful and knows a lot about rottweilers and has trained a lot of them. Birdie is doing great with it! Just thought I'd share my experience with you! Good muck with Molly! I'm sure you'll get a lot of good advice here!

[Birdie'sMom]

oops - I meant good luck!:D

[RobChr28]

Thanks Birdie, I hope it does help. I wish I could trust her around people.

[Judi W]

Will this be her first training? If so, you've left it a bit late as it is going to be much more difficult for her to adjust now that she has become aggressive and worried. Make sure you take her as many places as possible and insist upon good behavior from her. You are right not to let anyone in "biting distance" unless and until you better understand her and are able to instruct her on what to do and be sure she will listen.

How well PetsMart will serve you depends upon the instructor at that location. The other thing that might be harder for your girl is the classes are often held in crowded conditions and that would not necessarily be best in your situation. Why don't you go and watch a couple of sessions while you are waiting for your class to start.

[Birdie'sMom]

I agree with Judi - Pesmart training is held in the middle of the store during store hours, so there are a lot of people and animals around. We have a little fence like thing all around us at our class, but there are people who come over and watch and it can be very distracting for dog and for you. I like the distractions, now, because it challenges Birdie, but if you are just starting out, and your dog is fear aggressive, maybe it's not the best place for you and Molly. But I'm sure you will be able to tell better for yourself when you go and observe!

[RobChr28]

thanks Judy. I was hoping to hear from you. Yes this is her first training class. And I am late. I read a few training books and thought I could do it myself. She is perfect at home, she does what I say when I say it. She has never been aggressive towards "dog people" I have brought her to Petsmart many times and she liked meeting the people (loved meeting the dogs). Her problem is when someone is timid or afraid of her. Or if they startle her. Like the kid did. She doesn't ever go after people. The problem I have now is people used to come up to her and say "Does she bite" and I would say no. They come to her with confidence they have no problem. But now when the ask, I say "not yet" They still want to pet her but this time they do it very carefully and that scares her. The people that she met at pet smart would be shocked to know that she ever growled at anyone. I will go in and watch a few classes. I just can't figure her out.

[NJrottielover]

Those brats taunting her need to have a talking to (I'm being nice in saying "a talking to"- ugh ). I hope you threatened to call the police on them and talked to their parents. You should never leave her unattended, even in a fenced-in yard. You just never know what might happen. I'm sure that experience is not helping, but I wish you luck in your training classes. Consistency and patience are the keys! :)

[Rottlva]

I'm sorry to hear of Molly's fear of strangers... Unfortunately every time she snarls and growls... (she's asking in dog language for them to increase the distance between them) she is rewarded by them leaving.
Please make sure you are not reinforcing the behavior by coddling her while these incidents happen.

Begin by taking her into a situation that is different but not overwhelming... IE in the woods with one stranger instead of central park with 1000 strangers. Watch her body language. What is she alerting to? Is she afraid of just children or men with beards or ladies with blonde hair ( you get the picture) As soon as you figure out what is turning her on set her up to succeed. If she is afraid of childeren the postion a child a certian distance away... just doing nothing.. Happy, happy, happy, great things come when childeren are around... treats, pets, you dancing around and getting Molly all confident that childeren in the background=FUN!!! keep doing this shorten your distance between the child and Molly ... if she begins to show fear go back to a comfortable distance... if she is doing well shorten the distance. When molly is ready to meet a child I would keep her on a very short leash and have the child give her something that she can't resist... steak, burger what ever... still keeping in mind.. KIDS=Awesome stuff!

[Rottlva]

cont.
I would be very careful with her being outside unsupervised. It isn't fair for poor Molly to be taunted and this very well could be the problem.
On a quick note. If you are not certian Molly is comfortable with childeren for the last step... feeding then DO NOT test her as the consequences could be terrible.
Fear agression needs to be dealt with gently with confidence. If you are nervous of her behavior then she will become more nervous... Consult a professional trainer who can work individually with you and Molly... group classes can be for later when Molly has conquered her fears..... Classes of the Pet Smart nature might become counter productive. Good Luck! Remember You are in charge! Let her know that she can relax.... you'll protect her! Be a strong alpha in her life :) :)

[Jamie & Odin]

I have a dog with some fear problems too. The number one concern is people's safety, which you obviously realize.

I muzzle my dog in public, especially if I don't know the people we might encounter. I have worked to socialize him, attempting to keep most of his encounters with people limited to "dog people" in the last few months. By dog people I don't just mean people who like dogs, but people who KNOW dogs. Training class, the local pet supply store, rott stock:D and now another training class. He's becoming much more comfortable with people he doesn't know because of this.

If people ask to pet him, ask them to offer him a treat instead, it really works.

I've gotten over my frustration at needing him to be muzzled. I felt horrible about it at first. Now if people ask, I just say that he does have some fear problems and if a noise or someone scares him I need to make sure he doesn't get startled and snap. If they don't like it or don't understand, I don't need them to pet my dog anyway. If they do, then we continue.

Good luck! Find a good trainer, they can be a Godsend. Your dog will probably benefit from a smaller class, in a quieter environment than Petsmart.

[RobChr28]

thanks for all your responses. I agree with all of it. She was rewarded when she growled because the kid definitely left. But she was not rewarded by me.

I acted out of instinct and protection of children andanger I pulled her leash as hard as I could and pushed her to the ground as hard as I could. I know this might not of been the best way to do it. But I was mad at her. This kid couldn't of hurt her.

Do any of you know a better way I could of disciplined her?

We also have a female (pitt) that has lived the same life as Molly with the same things happening to her. Avery is perfect in every way. The kid could of come up and kicked her in the head and she would lick him. I wish Molly could learn something from her. I guess she just has more confidence. Thanks again all.

[chacha]

I understand your frustration, I have a 5 month old rottie that is the same way with strangers. Rottlva has good ideas, they work for me with Brinx. Usually when we are taking a walk or going to be in an area that strangers are going to be I make a big deal out of it. I try to make it fun for him by telling him, in a really happy tone of voice "Lets go say hi" and "Come on they want to say hi to you". If he does growl I usually grab his muzzle and say no, that usually helps. We also have a black lab that is really good with people and it seems that if he is around Brinx feels more confident and will not be so apprehensive on saying hi. I was also told to try and find some treat that he really likes and give the strangers that treat to give to him so he wants to go by strangers because they have the "good treats". Good luck with Molly!

Jessica

[Harleysmom]

I just wanted to mention this. Harley at times is the same way with strangers who approach him, but not at other times. He got his rabie shot the other day and when the vet came out so did an assistant that Harley has not met and of course the receptionist whom he knows very well. The assistant went up to him and he did a low throaty growl. No teeth or lip action. She backed off. When I appologized she said it was ok she appoached him all wrong. What I am trying to do is educate those he does not know on how to properly approach. I find many people do not realize that coming right at them and looming over them with hands thrust forward is very confrontational to a dog. I have been teaching my own children the proper manners when going up to other dogs. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Rottlva]

YES! Since dogs communicate with thier bodies if we approach them with the "wrong" body language then it can be problematic.
Watch a confident dog approach they will walk straight for you. A fearful dog will either leave the scene or will walk low to the ground with a shoulder turned towards you. They often walk in a semi circle around you with little eye contact. Thier ears are back, hackles may be raised, whites of the eye may be seen.

How your dog is approached is a big thing! I believe Jamie & Odin suggested REAL DOG PEOPLE..people who understand body language will never walk up to strange dog straightly... This is called a threat in dog language.....

***also standing over the dog..like how many people pet dogs is considered a very dominant position... When I see a dog is fearful I myself become quite low... crouch down turn my shoulder and head oppisite of the dog.. I talk in a low calm soothing voice and stay very still.... By making yourself less threatening the dog is more apt to have the confidence needed to greet you should he desire.

I do alot of Dog bite prevention with 4-H and we ALWAYS make sure the childeren ask the handler before petting the dog... It's common curtousy and common sense!