Help with jealousy

[hapkido99]

Hi, quick question. We have two rotti's the female is 2 and the male is 11 mnths. We have no problems with the female at all but have for thew last little bit noticed alot of jealousy coming from the younger male. When both dogs are together and the female comes close to us or guests in our house, the male will sprint across the room to get his body in there and more or less shove the female out of the way. If the female comes close and lies down for a scratch, he will wedge himself in there and make sure he gets all the attention. Any ideas? I am at a loss

[Vivianne]

Hi hapkido99,

I think it's a dominance issue and not a jealousy thing. Your female doesn't seem to mind him getting in her way, she seems to have a very calm attitude about this whole thing probably because she's more mature.
I have a co-worker with the same problem and they are rottys too. His male has even started marking the female
To which my friend has gone bizerk about.
He's resolved the problem by putting the male on a leash when he displays this behavior and pets the female first and him second. But only when he displays the behavior. So now, if he's not the first to get to the petting he waits his turn.

[Leader]

I'd agree that it's a dominance issue and I think all you can do is make sure you're alpha and that the male knows it. I have a 6.5 yr old male and an 11.5 yr old boxer bitch. although she's always been fed first and I tried to give her the dominant place in the household, the male is definitely the higher ranking of the two, just behind me. I don't think you can make a dog more or less dominant than another. I think that's something they have to work out....you just have to make sure nothing "bad" goes on (which shouldn't with a male and female:D ). I used to have 2 boxer bitches one very dominant young one and an older submissive one...for a year I had to physically enforce my alpha status almost, to prevent the younger one from attacking the older one ALL THE TIME:( WHAT A B*tch that was ). Oh well, it passed. You won't have that problem.

Best of luck,

Leader

[hapkido99]

Thanks for the replys. I had never considered it a dominance issue, that kinda puts a new perspective on things. I will definately try that and see how things change. Thanks alot :)

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by hapkido99
Hi, quick question. We have two rotti's the female is 2 and the male is 11 mnths. We have no problems with the female at all but have for thew last little bit noticed alot of jealousy coming from the younger male. When both dogs are together and the female comes close to us or guests in our house, the male will sprint across the room to get his body in there and more or less shove the female out of the way. If the female comes close and lies down for a scratch, he will wedge himself in there and make sure he gets all the attention. Any ideas? I am at a loss

I have a variation on this too with my dog. She'll rush over and attempt to wedge herself or get on hind legs to be right in on any kissing/hugging between myself and anyone. Including my husband, son and even my best friend [whom I hugged as she was leaving after a visit]. Since I'm about to go on vacation with this friend, my son and myself with dog, and we're staying with my mom [who is a big hugger/kisser], I'm somewhat concerned.

I had thought this was jealousy too - the dog is especially bonded to me and is like velcro - follows me everywhere in the house, even going to the rest room. I've begun to teach her "DOWN" and "STAY" inside the house as I go from room to room [she knows the commands well and obeys 80% of the time] as I don't really need a shadow/guard in my house. ;)

However, I'm now seeing this could be dominance. Is it?

The dog definitely knows I'm the boss - any time she thinks about doing something she shouldn't and I correct her verbally [Leave it or No], she will desist almost instantly and show submissive posture. On the two occasions I've had to verbally correct her more harshly [chewing pillows that weren't hers and my shoes], she will roll over on her back and show me her belly, while trying to smile and act silly, even using paws to "beg" for mercy. [it's difficult to remain serious at that point but I refuse to smile at her antics to distract me]. The dog is approx. 18-20 mos. old [maybe younger - she's a rescue so it's difficult to tell]. She's very puppy acting at times esp. during play and in the early AM [loves to play].

What I believe is that the dog thinks I'm the Alpha, she's the next on the totem pole, Mr. Zephyr is next and my college age son is last. Clearly this doesn't work out well for us as a family. Therefore, I've insisted they both spend time with her in obedience work, even going to her class of two and working with her. That worked well. However, the other night, I was acting affectionately towards my husband, as he was laying on the sofa [just kissing his face, not...you know...the whole enchillada] and the dog rushed over and jammed her big head in there, then leapt up and landed her front paws on my husband's chest, while I was shoving her away with a command [NO! and SIT]. She managed to nick his cheek with her toenail and there's a red scratch mark. I was very upset and so was my husband.

So now I'm determined to show her that she will be disapproved of, has done bad and will be corrected if she even thinks about leaping into the affectionate embrace of myself and anyone without an invite.

Any suggestions on how to do this without getting someone knocked over or scratched? BTW, she's not growly or mean, she will then lick both my face and anyone else's whom I'm embracing. She thinks it's time to show very warm loves to both myself and others, with very vigorous licks and waggling tail/butt.

Thanks,

Payton

[caseysmom]

My 18-20 month old female does the same thing as yours, Zephyr. She insists on stuffing her huge block head in between me and whoever I happen to be hugging or kissing. She is never growling or what I would term aggressive and I have always interpreted it as her wanting to share in the "lovins". It does get a bit overbearing to the extent of occaisionally having to shut her out of the room should my boyfriend and I want some alone time. Is this a dominance issue? She clearly recognizes me as alpha but my boyfriend treats her like she is an equal and so that is the treatment he receives in return.

[Vivianne]

I’m no expert, but until one gives an answer I think we have two issues here. hapkido99, Leader and I are referring to dog interaction. Zephyr and caseysmom are referring to dog people interaction.
In the case of people I don’t think it’s not dominance. In your cases it is clear to the dog who is alpha (people in these cases). I have noticed that when I display affection to a person my dog interferes because it is left out as a pack member, regardless of its position. Displays of affection (I use the term loosely) within a wolf pack involves everyone. Like on the return to the den from a good hunt. All play and run around, everyone shares in the feeding of the pups, while some show submission to others while participating in the playtime. It’s a communal exchange.
I think your dogs are respecting their positions within their human family pack, but just don’t want to be left out of what they perceive as stress free time within the pack order.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Vivianne
I’m no expert, but until one gives an answer I think we have two issues here. hapkido99, Leader and I are referring to dog interaction. Zephyr and caseysmom are referring to dog people interaction.
In the case of people I don’t think it’s not dominance. In your cases it is clear to the dog who is alpha (people in these cases). I have noticed that when I display affection to a person my dog interferes because it is left out as a pack member, regardless of its position. Displays of affection (I use the term loosely) within a wolf pack involves everyone. Like on the return to the den from a good hunt. All play and run around, everyone shares in the feeding of the pups, while some show submission to others while participating in the playtime. It’s a communal exchange.
I think your dogs are respecting their positions within their human family pack, but just don’t want to be left out of what they perceive as stress free time within the pack order.

Vivianne, I think you may be on to something there. Xev isn't the least bit unhappy, she's always very affectionate with all of us. In fact, when she's outside and stands at the deck door to come in, she'll act like she hasn't seen me in ages, though it's only been 10-15 mins.! Same with my husband and son, whom she loves a lot too.

Upon our return from being out, she'll be wanting to sniff our faces and lick our faces, and have us kiss her head and give her big hugs. It's all very warm and excited on her part. The good thing is, when I tell her to "Settle", she knows to not go further and will calm down.

She has a lot of energy in general, and in our first weeks together, she'd jump into our bed with us, kissing and wiggling her butt like crazy. But now that she has her own bed next to ours, she's willing to lay there and just come over to each side and nuzzle us each night at bed time and each AM upon waking.

I don't want to make this an issue or cast it as a problem if it's really just her way of showing pack affection. SHe's a very sensitive soul - very much watches human by-play and faces for cues on how to respond. I also think having come from a kill-shelter recently has deepened the need for close human contact.

Anyone have any other thoughts on this?

Thanks for any input......

Payton

:)

[Judi W]

I would just add one little note. If you really are in charge, and you seriously do not want your dog to be doing something, it won't be doing it. It is the ambivalence that can be confusing and has the dog continuing even though it is inappropriate at times. If your dog knows "leave it" or "knock it off" or "get back", you should easily be able to instruct them when it is not a group hug time. Doesn't mean they can't join in when invited. Also, please note that being pushy and rude can be done quite happily and is rarely accompanied by growling! What's to complain about (from the dog's point of view) when they are doing exactly what they want to do? ;) Doesn't make it any less pushy.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by Judi W
I would just add one little note. If you really are in charge, and you seriously do not want your dog to be doing something, it won't be doing it. It is the ambivalence that can be confusing and has the dog continuing even though it is inappropriate at times. If your dog knows "leave it" or "knock it off" or "get back", you should easily be able to instruct them when it is not a group hug time. Doesn't mean they can't join in when invited. Also, please note that being pushy and rude can be done quite happily and is rarely accompanied by growling! What's to complain about (from the dog's point of view) when they are doing exactly what they want to do? ;) Doesn't make it any less pushy.

So true! Judi, thank you once again for your excellent advice. I took it and last night, my husbnd and I tried it out. First we were hugging and had to SIT and then she could join in our hug. She was cool with that. Then we did the little kissing thing in the family room on our sofa. She was ready to pounce again right into the middle [she will literally stop whatever she's doing, wrinkle her forehead, prick ears and bound over]. I immediately stopped her with a WAIT command, which she's learned from class. She got it. Did that a few times and then she'd get her share of kisses. I notice that she only does this when it's me kissing someone, not when two others are kissing or hugging. I have to be involved before she's ready to get in there. So it's up to me to catch her before she pounced into the embrace and have her settle down for her turn. :)

Thanks again for excellent advice!

Payton

[BIGWRIGHT]

Here's something that may help with my boys I make them sit and then I walk over to them give each five minutes they are always getting between each other so I do that allot to make sure they get their fair share even with snacks or anything else. It works allot because they realize that they have to share. Yet it still amazes me that I can fix their food and they eat of each others bowls weird.