playful aggression?

[pod]

Prince is now 9 months old and he's a healthy rott. He has really started to listen to verbal corrections and it's only very rarely that we have to physically correct him. He's on his way to becoming a super dog!
He does have a few, what I call, dominance issues. He will always (he's doing it right now, in fact) come and stare at me while I'm on the computer. He won't snap or bark, he just stares at me. Now, if I get up while he's doing this, he will grab my leg with his front legs and snap and growl at me. This is mostly my fault since we used to play chase when he was a puppy and I'd let him catch me some times. I also catch him staring at me some times. I've heard you are supposed to stare them down when they want to play the staring game. Any truth to that?
He also has gotten in to this "pawing" habit. If we let him jump in bed or he walks in to the office while we are working, he will use either of his front paws and "claw" like a cat at us. It's not painful, just a strange way of getting us to pet him or give him other attention.
In other news, Prince isn't quite the bigot he used to be. :-) He quite enjoys chasing all of the kids in the neighborhood, not just the whiteys. :-) He is so good with the kids. He never bites or snaps and always plays just the right amount, not too much but he still gives them a workout when they try to catch his too-long tail. It's like he instinctively knows that he can't play as rough with the smaller people.
What a great dog!
Joe

[rottnkidd]

[quote]Originally posted by pod
[b]Prince is now 9 months old and he's a healthy rott. He won't snap or bark, he just stares at me. Now, if I get up while he's doing this, he will grab my leg with his front legs and snap and growl at me.

*Hi Joe - I'd stop this behavior like yesterday. It certainly seems harmless and playful, but he shouldn't be jumping on you and doing anything with his paws.
He's 9 mos now, but soon he'll be an adult and 100+ lbs and you won't appreciate him jumping and wrapping paws! He may very likely find this acceptable and he'll be jumping and wrapping on anyone he feels like! He's forcing you to play and controlling the situation. See how clever these rott'n kids can be? I'd make sure he gets plenty of good exercise daily, and if he's not enrolled in Obedience classes, I'd get him involved! You'll be thankful you did. Remember, you don't want him doing anything now, that you won't want him doing as an adult. It's not easy undoing bad behaviours if they become habit. So break the bad habits now!

In other news, Prince isn't quite the bigot he used to be. :-) He quite enjoys chasing all of the kids in the neighborhood, not just the whiteys. :-) He is so good with the kids. He never bites or snaps and always plays just the right amount, not too much but he still gives them a workout when they try to catch his too-long tail.


*Joe, don't allow the dog to chase the kids, ever. This can turn ugly. Dog's have what's called prey drive, and many rottweilers have a high prey drive. If you allow him to chase the kids now, he'll be doing it when he's full-grown, and someone is going to get hurt. He's "learning" that it's ok to chase, but you don't want him "learning" it's ok to chase kids or anyone! So what may seem like fun and games now can have serious ramifications later.
He might not be biting or snapping now, but if one of these kids starts screaming, running and flailing arms about, it may get him in prey "mode" with disastrous consequences.
Our breed is wonderful, and intelligent; but they need strong leadership and discipline. It doesn't mean they can't have fun, but they need to know who's running the show, and it isn't the Rottweiler! They need to live by the rules. It's up to us to set the limits on what's acceptable. The breed has suffered terribly
from irresponsible ownership. Far too many children have been
injured or fatally attacked by Rottweilers that were given free rein. So please discontinue allowing the dog to chase the kids.
Don't leave him unattended with the children. Start working with him and you'll have a companion you'll be proud of for life!
kathy

[emorgan49]

About chasing kids...Running children ALWAYS trip and fall. They skin their knees and elbows and hands. Then there is a lot of tears and blood. Who is going to believe that the huge rotty standing over them is actually concerned and trying to be helpful. Ask me how I know.......

Don't let big dogs chase other peoples kids, even in fun.

[pod]

Originally posted by rottnkidd
Our breed is wonderful, and intelligent;

My dog chases lasers until he passes out and drinks water from the toilet. He gets angry when he's stuck in the house and the squirrells and the birds gang up on him in the back yard to taunt him. Wonderful, yes, intelligent... Maybe I got the short end of the stick. ;-)
Seriously though, I should have clarified. When we have a neighborhood party and the youngens are over, they will play with Prince in the back yard. It's not like he's given free reign to roam all over the neighborhood and terrorize the small people. Playing with the dogs was always one of my best memories growing up.
The prey instinct someone was talking about is interesting. I bet Prince has a strong prey instinct. Where would I find out more info on this particular idea?

[brunie's mom]

pod.

Please listen to the advise you have been given here. What you have is an accident waiting to happen. Do not let him play with other peoples kids... one day he may try to protect your kids when they start to yell and scream... all in fun.. but as your guy matures he will start to worry about his family.
All dogs can and do bite... but when Rottweilers bite they do alot of damage in a short time.
Do not set him up to fail:( ... you have a big responsiblility owning a Rottweiler please be careful.
If your dog is not in formal obedience classes get him and you enrolled. This will teach you how to teach him... and the teacher can explain to you about prey drive. It sounds like your guy has it.. when kids are running, screaming and shaking their arms.. the dog thinks it's prey and chases and can bring a kid down:(

Let him socialize with the kids.. but only on lead and with you supervising. We don't want to be reading about more tragedies in the future.

Gina

[RottiMomCT]

If you do a search in these forums you will find wonderful advice about prey drive and instincts.

My Ben is 85 lbs and 3 yrs old. He's a certified Therapy Dog, and wonderful with children when we're doing our visiting, and out in public walking - that is, until they are running around and squealing like children sometimes do.

He wants to join what he thinks is a game - I cannot and will not guarantee he won't bite playfully while chasing, so I dont let him even try it. My 10 & 12 yr old nieces know not to run around the dogs. I will also tell children when we are out in public walking not to run near any dog. I don't really care what people think of me for trying to keep their kids safe from a possible dog bite, or worse...

DO NOT let any dog chase kids for any reason - it's a game now, but unless you have 100% perfect recall when he's in prey drive mode, you are asking for trouble.

[pod]

I can't guarantee a 100% recall, but we are at about a 90% right now, regardless of the situation. He had a squirell cornered the other day and he heeled on command. He had the best success rate of any of the dogs in the four obedience courses we've had.
He's going to 5th level this net week, next is "flyball" for him. That should be a lot of fun for him and for us.

[Angelica]

I learned the hard way about prey drive. I got a beautiful husky from the humane society last summer. He was one beautiful dog, very nice to be with one on one but terrible with my other dogs. I spent two weeks sneaking him out one door and the others in another door after he attacked my husky/shepherd. He was very alert to any movement, and finally caught one of my cats and killed it. I was a nervous wreck and realized that it wasn't safe to have him cause he would go after anything that moved. I know that if my small daughter was holding the cat he would take her down and so I returned him. I was heartbroken and frantically tried to find him a home where he would be no danger to anything. After two weeks I got a call from the shelter telling me that he was attacking other dogs through the fence and that they were putting him down. I've been around dogs all my life and that was my first experience with the high prey drive, it was very upsetting. Though huskys are known for this I believe that if this dog had been socialized as a puppy, he could have co-existed with my other dogs. Do rottweilers have a high prey drive as a breed? Roo isn't allowed to chase us but she likes to play chase with her pal Zak.:(

[Robby]

The dog in your bed probably isn't a good idea.

[RottiMomCT]

Originally posted by pod
I can't guarantee a 100% recall, but we are at about a 90% right now, regardless of the situation. He had a squirell cornered the other day and he heeled on command. He had the best success rate of any of the dogs in the four obedience courses we've had.
He's going to 5th level this net week, next is "flyball" for him. That should be a lot of fun for him and for us.

OK, a squirrel cornered is different...a running child makes ALOT more noise than any squirrell I've ever heard, and it may be difficult for ANY dog, even proofed to 100% recall to stop when in full prey drive!!

Congrats on the obed success....9 months old and 90% perfect recall...how many times and how long per day do you train??

[pod]

the amount of time I spend w/ him. I'm a full time student and part time worker (from the house, couldn't even keep a Rott otherwise) and I usually spend anywhere from 7 to 10 sessions a day with him. Generally 3 or 4 minute jaunts in the back yard.
So, I would say about 15 to 20 minutes a day. Does that answer your question?

[WorkinDogz]

Yes I would agree that you dog has some issues but none that are overwhelmingly difficult to recondition.

That pawing at you thing.....although it might make you go "awwwww.. c'mere. I'll pet ya." is pretty rude, demanding behavior from a dog.

Since you have his obedience so uptight; create a command that means "not now; I'll let YOU know when I want to pet/play with YOU." My ex used to tell his dogs to "take a hike" which would send them to "their spots" and laying down. I use "go Platz". (meaning...go lay down)

90% recall might seem like a great thing; except I have to ask what YOU DO the OTHER 10% when he doesn't recall to you??? Do you reinforce the recall or do you say "oh well. Next time you'll come" Consistancy makes for 100%. If he's not 100% then a long line with reinforcing capabilities is in order.

Chasing kids..... bad idea. Constructive PLAY with kids throwing a ball for him; having him "out" the ball for another run.....good idea.

You seem to blow over the very real risks that were pointed out to you several times in this thread. Sure hope you stop and think about what you're promoting within your dog.

[pod]

The 10% of the time is my fault. I've distracted him or created a diversion with my head movement. I would say when we have eye contact, he's as good as a 9 month old pup is gonna get.
I guess I made a bigger deal of the playing with kids than is there. I'm not blowing over it, I recognize that there is a potential problem there, otherwise why would I have brought it up? But his behavior doesn't seem threatening and upon command, he ceases to "hunt" them. I'll make a concerted effort to teach others that "chase" is a bad game for Prince and "chase the frisbee" is a good game. Thanks for all the feedback.

[rottnkidd]

I'm certain it's not the intention of the posters in this forum to be ganging up on you. The real concern seems to be that you may not be getting the message...allowing the dog to chase the kids is never a good idea no matter what the age or level of training!
There's been an active thread in the "Rottweilers in the News" forum, concerning the death of a 5 yr old girl in CA. This child was out walking with her 9 yr old brother and grandmother, and the grandmother's 2 Rottweilers. The 7 y.o. male who happens to be a Champion, from an excellent pedigree, well-socialized, well-rounded, went berserk when the young girl was startled by a lizard that crossed their path. As she screamed and flailed the male went into high defensive drive and punctured her skull and lung. If he reacted this violently to her hysteria, imagine if
she had started running away. This was a terrible, freak accident.
Unfortunately the grandmother was unable to gain control of the dog, he was unleashed, and now a young child is dead. I don't think the training can ever stop! And I strongly believe with a breed as strong and powerful as the Rottweiler, all of the necessary precautions must be taken, no matter what the circumstances. It only takes a moment for serious injury or death to result from an owner becoming too complacent. JMO
kathy

[pod]

okay I'm not trying to stir up a hornets nest here, but I'm sure I will. These are ANIMALS. They are strong dogs, they are highly bred and admired for their strength and will.
In this case, which I know nothing about, the dog reacted in what way? In the way he was taught? Was he taught that he should protect this person when she started screaming at a lizard by crunching her skull? Of course not. I'm sure that was a startle response that could have been traced back to an evolutionary protective measure. So what does that have to do with me letting Prince play with kids unleashed? Seems to me that the dog would be better socialized if he was given opportunity to interact with different human reactions in a controlled environment where he is comfortable as opposed to isolated reactions that may disturb or upset his sense of security. Is there a serious flaw in my thinking here? Please speak up if you see it.