Biting

[MaxiesMom]

Hi, I written before about my female pup biting, she is now going on 13 weeks and this hasn't stopped. I am consistent with my NO's, I spray bitter apple all over me, and I have tried re-directing her attention to a play toy. I just don't get it. I know it is not agressive, my fiance says she thinks I am playing cause I am moving my hands and legs and I can understand that. Her fits last a few minutes and then she stops and a while later it starts up again. I don't get it, and it seems she does this when I need to either change my clothes or something that takes attention from her. She is crated during the day while we are gone and then free roam of the house when we are home, however, she is never "alone" in a room when we are home. She is always with us with our eye on her. Now, my fiance has mentioned that she only does this biting thing with me, not him and we live together. Is she trying to tell me she is the Alpha? Another thing he pointed out that it is kinda hard to take me as the alpha because I maybe over 30, but I sound like I am 12 even with my sternest NO. Any advice?? She starts puppy kindergarten in a few weeks. Other than the biting she is VER Y well behaved. Sorry so long.

Thanks, Teena

[WorkinDogz]

Successful Bite inhabition conditioning is dependent on a couple of things.

1. Consistancy

2. Firmness

3. Attitude of the HUMAN

4. Consistancy

Considering that your S/O doesn't have the same problem; I would say you're relying waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much on synthetic products like Bitter Apple (which incidently is for use on OBJECTS that you wish to make distasteful; not HUMANS) instead of conditioning with consistancy and firmness.

Even 13 week old puppies aren't as fragile as *most* "dog mom's" think they are; therefore; it's VERY common for the female to "go easy" on the puppy instead of issuing a FIRM correction.

Tone of voice is a valuable tool. Find a "big dog" voice in yourself and USE IT. Your ATTITUDE while issuing the correction is very important also. BE OFFENDED when the puppy bites you!

I think if you sit back and honestly assess your own methods and applications over the past few weeks; you'll see that "it's you" not the puppy.

Mixed signals and inconsistancy will bite you EVERY TIME.

[TrishB]

WorkinDogz' comments are right on the money! :D It's tougher for women to correct due to our high voices. Just as it's tougher for men to praise due to their low voices.

So do your best low and LOUD voice that you can when correcting.

Also be sure that you're not pulling your hands, feet, clothes away from her when she's nipping at you. This is a 'flight' game that pups love to play. They nip, your hands/feet/clothes fly away from her, giving her the chance to chase them.

Best of luck!

[MaxiesMom]

My fiance says that I am encouraging when I am pulling my hands and feets and waving them around. He says she thinks I am playing and that I should stand still and correct her, but boy does her little bites hurt. I will work on the the low deep voice and attitude. Thanks for all you advice.

[Judy Chrusch]

I definately agree with WD and boy is consistancy ever so important. I would like to add that exercise and plenty of chew toys and other safe toys are a key in this behavior too. Boredom can also cause this behavior;). When my male did this and boy did he bite hard, he was a singleton, only pup, so he didn't have sibblings to put him in his place but when he'd do the biting I'd get a favorite toy, make a big deal out of it and after doing this he soon realized it wasen't worth the effort to bite and bug me bc he wasen't getting the reaction he wanted . Trust me she already has you where she wants you and she knows how she can get to you. Czar does a doubletake when I put on my loud deep voice and now at 18 months I have to say he listens better to me then my husband, we won't tell hubby that though, LOL and I am with out a doubt consistent every time! If I say sit, he better sit right away, no playing around with me and I use alot of hand signals and some times I don't even have to say anything, he knows. To this day he will try to outsmart me and NOT do a certain command I ask, he knows to go in the crate when I say "crate" and he knows if he doesn't come when he's called to go in I'll approach him and escort him to his crate. See he thinks one of these days I just won't care, wrong!! Anyway, take the advice from WD, she's a GEM and knows what she's talking about bc this is only the beginning and they learn real fast how to get away with things and she will test you along the way for the next couple of years. But please make sure she's getting daily exercise and play different and fun things with her. Best of luck to you and remember you're the boss!!!

Judy

[GenHannibal]

MaxiesMom...sent you a pm. I live in your area and may be able to help you out.

[MaxiesMom]

Thank you everyone for all your advice!! After reading some of the replies yesterday I do realize it is me, not Maxie. I am going to really work hard and not be a wimpy mom. She has lots of toys and gets lots of excersize as well. I do think at times when she is bitey, she might be over stimulated. Anyways, again thanks for all the advice and I have been working on my "Dog Voice"! I look forward to puppy kindergarten to start!!!:D

[Judy Chrusch]

Maxiesmom, you're going to do just fine, the first step is realizing what you have to change and do different which you already have:D so hang in their, make a few adjustments and never loose sight of who the boss HAS to be :D! You mentioned she may be over stimulated, Oh do I know about that too, Czar would act like a nut and that's when he did more of the biting, uncontrolably at times, but I changed a couple things and made sure after EACH playtime and after EACH meal that he was put in his crate to rest. You can say it's nap time or whatever, but have a phrase that you use ALL the time so she gets use to going in after those times. You'll see a much improved puppy :D.

Judy

[Hadoken]

Only thing to add is...

You have to be one heck of an actor(actress).. OWWWW!!! OUCH! THAT HURT! NO BITE! AAAAIIEEEEEE! Then leave the room for a bit.

Had to throw that in.. We are currently "finishing" up the "no bite" training and its comical in our house. AIEEEEEEE!

[Trinitii]

Hehe to help explain all the noises Hadoken is saying. I believe Judy (please forgive me if I am wrong) mentioned to me in another thread that when the teeth hit the skin she adds drama. My athena is 7 months so older than your little tike. Every time her teeth even barely hit our skin we go off in a fit like she has done the most horrible thing. You will all of a sudden hear me or my husband in the other room having a fit. It is really comical I should tape it :)


Trinitii

ps it is working!

[AlphaDog]

This is normal with Rotts. I have two of them and I've experienced this with both. It comes and goes and it will go away with time and training. Everything people said here is correct. One other thing you might do is to put her away when she starts this behavior. Soon she will learn that doing that doesn't get here anything. Bitter apple doesn't work with Rotts, at least not for me.

Be firm and "Let NO mean NO", change your attitude and voice when you do this and then put her away for a minute or two if she doesn't stop. Yeah, I know she's created all day but you still have to stick to it. You have to be careful with the whole redirection of attention with a tow b/c if not done correctly it can also mean a reward to them!!

Good luck.

[UnclLou]

I believe that if you communicate with your dog or puppy as another dog does, you will achieve much greater success in a shorter period of time than with any other method.

Part of normal puppy behavior is rough and tumble play involving mouthing and biting its littermates as well as its mother and father. When you bring a puppy home he will play with you the same way. Since your skin is much more delicate than that of a dog, this will hurt. This is especially true since a puppy's teeth are like little needles. They cause pain because they are so sharp and can, on occasion, puncture the skin.

In my experience, yelling in pain may stop the dog, but rarely works more than a few times. I think the puppy is startled by the sharp loud noise and inhibited for a moment. But after a few times of this occurring, the puppy learns that nothing bad or uncomfortable happens and he learns to ignore it.

I believe that the best way to stop a puppy from biting too hard is the way his mother does.

When a puppy is nursing and bites down too hard on his mother's nipple, she will take his whole head in her mouth and bite down, slowly increasing the pressure until the puppy goes limp, exhibiting submission. She will hold that pressure for a moment and then releases it. After a few repetitions of this, the puppy becomes conditioned to the amount of pressure that is appropriate. He learns that a little pressure is O.K. but that a harder bite brings an unpleasant situation.

No, I don't want you to take your puppy's head in your mouth. The puppy's head is probably be too large for that, and besides, there’s all that puppy hair on your tongue.

Feeding a piece of food, is excellent for starting the "off" or "leave it" command but that method will take a couple of weeks of training before you can expect the puppy not to bite. I don't have a couple of weeks to train my puppies and they can cause a lot of pain and do a lot of damage in that time.

I advocate that when you are playing with your puppy and he bites too hard, you should immediately engulf his head with one of your hands. Slowly increase the pressure of your hand, squeezing HIS lips into HIS teeth until he stop moving and becomes passive. Hold that level of pressure for just a few seconds and then release the puppy.

Don't yell, unless it's involuntarily as a result of the pain from the puppy's bite. Don't scold, don't shake the puppy. His mother does not do any of these things and she manages to get him to stop biting too hard in short order.

I have never had to do this more than five or six times before the puppy learns what is and what is not, an appropriate level of force when playing. It is usually done in one afternoon with a reminder or two the following day.

Some of the readers of this may say that it is cruel or may cause the puppy to bite even harder or that it will cause hard feelings between the puppy and the owner. I will counter that it doesn't do any of those things when the puppy's mother does it and it won't with you.

Try it and see how it works.

(C) Copyright 1998, Lou Castle

[AlphaDog]

I won't do this technique with a Rottie. It doesn't work and some may even try to bite harder. In my esperience with Rotties, the best thing that works is to NEVER let them bite you. If they try to bite, put a toy in their mouth, say "no bite" and put the toy in their mouth.

Also give the Rottie allot of chew toys to chew on. Nylabone is very good for them. This has worked well for me for several years. Some Rotts will try and bite even harder. NOT Good!

Now I'm assuming that your dog is a Rottie.

[UnclLou]

AlphaDog wrote: I won't do this technique with a Rottie. It doesn't work and some may even try to bite harder.

LC: I think that when you say that a given technique “won’t work” especially when it HAS worked for others, what that really means is that it hasn’t worked for you. If that’s the case there are several possibilities. One is that you haven’t really applied the technique. You’ve done something improperly. You haven’t followed the instructions. You’ve left something out or you’ve thrown something else in.

LC: It could also mean that your body type, and I certainly don’t mean to insult, just isn’t compatible with the technique. For example right now, I’m recovering from shoulder surgery and couldn’t do anything that required shoulder strength. It could also mean that the technique just didn’t work with that particular animal.

LC: But this technique has NEVER failed to work for me and it’s been applied to hundreds of puppies of many breeds including Rotts.

AlphaDog wrote: In my esperience with Rotties, the best thing that works is to NEVER let them bite you. If they try to bite, put a toy in their mouth, say "no bite" and put the toy in their mouth.

LC: Your advice here to “never let them bite” is a bit late for this problem as the dog has bitten and is continuing to bite. But it might help someone else or this poster with her next dog. Although I think that preventing a puppy from EVER biting you is a bit difficult. I think she’s already tried the transfer or substitution method that you mention and it hasn’t worked. But I could be mistaken.

[AlphaDog]

LC you have some good points. Let me clarify myself though.

When I say "never" let them bite you, what i mean is that don't let them go on biting you. It's never too late to stop anything. This whole thing about stopping the bite is a big debate and just the fact that the technique works for other and not others is also an indication that the technique is either difficult or not a good one.

Rotties are mouthy dogs and they have a very strong mouth. How long will it take before the little bite becomes a big bite. To make a long story short, I will just take the whole bite on the skin a NO NO. You can even find information on this at the rottweiller club web site.