Running scared

[mccoy]

We have recently rescued a rottie with
some serious problems. He is a 4 year
old male with the sweetest personality
I have ever seen, the problem is he is afraid of his own shadow my husband and
I have had him for 2 months and he seems
to be getting worse instead of better.

The people that had Duke kept him in a
kennel for most of his life along with
another rottie they were very seldom
around people and I am really worried
that he is going to hurt himself trying
to get away. I am the only member of
our family that he will even come to. My husband has tried many different
things to gain his trust but it seems
like nothing works he wasn't this bad
when we first got him and I know that
no one has been mean to him since we
have had him. The other day he ran
head first into the bumper of our car
trying to get away and tonight he ran
into my son. His eyes are fine, he
does this running and looking back to
see what's behind him

Please help me my whole family thinks
this dog is crazy and I know he's not

[WorkinDogz]

Sounds as though this dog is more than a little overwhelmed by the whole situation.

His nerves don't appear to be overly solid and the lack of socialization for this long most certainly didn't help him.....but now you have this dog that is getting worse.

Maybe it's possible that the dog would be better off in a less stressful situation.....like a one-owner; single dog household?

4 years is a long time for some things to be set in stone...and with children (who the dog obviously has access to) and a bunch of other dogs around; maybe that's not quite what he needs.

I would be very hesitant to push kids on a dog like this. He's not stable enough (and getting worse) to handle that IMO...and it puts the child at an unreasonable risk.

I would work with this dog one person at a time......and make it as less stressful as possible....and then consider if your situation is the best one for the dog.

That is what "Rescue" is all about afterall.

[Lora Lee]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
.I would be very hesitant to push kids on a dog like this. He's not stable enough (and getting worse) to handle that IMO...and it puts the child at an unreasonable risk.

I would work with this dog one person at a time......and make it as less stressful as possible....and then consider if your situation is the best one for the dog.

Totally agree, with all your post--but these two statements are very important.

With a possible nerve problem, and lack of crucial socialization (not to mention training?), I'd be hesitant (and not trust) this dog around children.

Good advice WD!

[mccoy]

The whole point of rescue is to help
this dog, he is not at all aggresive
if he was toward my children or other
dogs, I would gladly find him a home
somewhere else but he's not. I just
feel like he needs to gain their trust
When my children are playing with the
other dogs he watches, and wants to join
in but he's just afraid.

[WorkinDogz]

Do a search in the archives for a thread by Mick Trainer entitled "Nerve Strength and Threshold".

Aggression comes in many, many forms.....and fear aggression can be; without a doubt; the most dangerous.

Helping the dog is great..... IMHO the current situation isn't helping him at all; in fact; very possibly the reverse is occuring.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
I would be very hesitant to push kids on a dog like this. He's not stable enough (and getting worse) to handle that IMO...and it puts the child at an unreasonable risk.

I second that..


Not all dogs love kids.. in fact some do not even like them... just like people....

My dog is not particularly fond of little people... and I have 4 yr-old daughter....

do they play together? sometimes (highly supervised).. and he is noticeably gentle with her... however comma, I never have, and never will push children on him....... why??.... I see no reason to...

It hurts nobody, if my dog doesn't want to play with all the neighborhood kids... it could hurt somebody if I tried to force the issue......

[mccoy]

WD, I read the articles you mentioned
earlier, very well wrote I might ad!!
But poor Duke falls into the weakest
catagory but I am still not going to
give up. There are many things that I
still feel I have not tried, and I am
in no way shape or form trying to push
this dog on my children. I am a very
responsible dog owner. I feel it is in
no way causing me to worry about my
childrens safety, after all my children
like any other mother, does come first.

[moondog]

Hi mccoy,

Since you are committed to helping your dog, WorkinDogz advice to work with him one person at a time and making it less stressful for him is the only way it's going to happen. He needs someone he can rely on, structure he can understand and the capacity to trust his environment. If your household is a bit chaotic and he's expected to adjust to it as is, how can he find what he needs? Sounds like he needs a wide, quiet path to follow along with a good guide in order to find his confidence. :)

[mccoy]

I just wanted to let everyone
know that I read the articles
WD suggested yesterday and all
morning I kept going over things
that had happened since we had
rescued Duke because he sure is
not the same dog. I decided to
start all over with him.
The day we went to pick him up
they had him in a kennel and he
barked not showing any aggression
just a "hey you don't belong here"
we went in with his previous owners
and he came over to me and we bonded
I guess is the word I am looking for.
When we brought him home we decided
with his good nature we would keep
him inside.
That is when things started going
down hill, I put him in a kennel
yesterday and wuthin an hour he was
barking at people going by our house
not aggressive just the same warning
bark he gave to us that first day.
I am going to keep him in the kennel
until he builds his confidence back
up and go from there.
Thanks for the help!!!!! This poor
dog has been in so many homes thru
no fault of his own they just got
tired of him I want to try every
thing I can.

[WorkinDogz]

Ok first step done. Removal from stressful situation back to a "safety zone" that the dog doesn't feel threatend in.

Now.....the confidence thing. He's not building any confidence there.. It's someplace he feels safe; but.....it's not going to transfer out of the run.

Once out of the safety zone; his demeanor will not just magically change.

This is where your gigantic job starts. Building trust, rapport and confidence (hopefully through training) in the dog. All of this happens VERY SLOWLY.

Overnight results won't be seen. Results in a week won't be seen. It takes a LONG TIME and a ton of patiences on your part.

Reconditioning a dog is no small task; nor is it done by "winging it". Please contact a Rescue in your area that has maybe someone that volunteers with them that can help you with step by step instuctions and evaluate the dog for you.

I'm sure there are Trainers or Behaviorists that your Vet can recommend that would be willing to (for a price) help you to help this dog.

Sometimes.....the type of "confidence" a dog builds in a kennel; when the dog already has nerve problems, confidence issues and a soft temperament.....isn't the kind of "confidence" that is beneficial to anyone......including the dog....especially if the proper steps aren't taken to build GOOD confidence.

Good luck but don't kid yourself.....you have a huge job in front of you and it's not as easy as you might be thinking it is?

[WorkinDogz]

I guess I just "assumed" (which isn't a good thing to do around these parts...LOL) that the dog has had a complete Vet Check, is current on his vaccinations etc..... and is neutered.

Since he's obviously not a dog suitable for breeding; if he's not neuterd it might be a good idea to start thinking about having the proceedure done since you have intact bitches around.

That's one less thing you'll have to think about..... raging hormones when your female(s) come into season again.

[Mattweiser]

Originally posted by WorkinDogz
Sometimes.....the type of "confidence" a dog builds in a kennel; when the dog already has nerve problems, confidence issues and a soft temperament.....isn't the kind of "confidence" that is beneficial to anyone......including the dog....

It's funny that WD put confidence in quotes.... because I was just thinking the same thing.....


most likely, your dog is not barking out of any type of confidence, rather, he is barking to show feigned aggression (translated = fear)..... he is however much more confident in his crate than outside of it.... which is is why he even feels strong enough to bark while there.....

one immeditate recommedation that I have is to put the crate in the living room, or wherever you spen the bulk of your time.... so that he can be around you, and still be "safe" at the same time....

also insure that the door is open, so that he can venture out whenever he feels "man" enough to do so... but can still return just as easily...

and like WD said above.... this is just step 1.... you have a very long road ahead of you.... and I applaud you for having the time and heart to take this problem on........ :)