Barrymcd Wrote: you will find that dogs trained in the way I describe-- where I as trainer wait for the dog to initiate the action on its own--have shown to respond to the command and remember the command better than traditional leash-trained dogs. This is probably because instead of imposing your will on the dog by "making it do what you want," you end up working with a dog who learns that what you want is what it prefers and want, too.
Rottnvegas: Please give examples of these dog's that remember better with clicker training. Please point out all of the schutzhand trained dogs that compete at national levels that have been trained using a clicker. I don't think you will find any at all. I don't think these dogs are "forgetting" their training. Please don't say "I train pets, not competition dogs" because the simple fact is traditional training brings out a much more responsive and sharp dog. If these top competitors dog's are doing so well, where do you think the clicker would come into play?
Barrymcd wrote: PRECISELY! And that is why it works BETTER and FASTER and MORE HUMANELY than most other methods of training!!! That is what the DOG is thinking from its point of view, but in reality, from the trainer's point of view, what you see is a dog that is ANXIOUS and HAPPY to please you and obey your commands because it has never been forced, yanked, prodded, pulled, or pressured into doing the behavior.
Rottnvegas: You don't think dogs that go through a proofing and correction phase are still happy to please their handler??? PALLEESE
It is clear their is a lack of understanding about the way dog's learn here. The motivational phase is where the dog learns the behavior. The correction phase is where the dog learns that if it doesn't perform when asked it gets popped with a correction. You think my 105 pound rott resents me for correcting his hard, muscular, and thick neck with a prong collar? Well, I'm looking at him right now and I don't see any dissent in his eyes.
I would like to see truly clicker trained dogs (no corrections) work under severe distraction i.e. in the middle of a dog park or around a bitch in season. I will show you my dog any time under these circumstances. It seems the clicker crowd thinks a 1 or 2 minute sit-stay is something special.
If you think the clicker is the best thing since sliced bread than I would say use it. Use it in the motivational and teaching phase of training. Just don't forget that dogs need a correction phase to be truly reliable under distraction. Don't have the attitude that leash corrections are inhumane. THEY ARE NOT....this attitude comes from green peace fanatics that think you shouldn't eat meat but at the same time have a big leather jacket on...LOL