[BarryMcD]

Wow, am I trying to bite my tongue!

First, Vicki is absolutely correct: Clicker Training can certainly be used in a class. Dogs have acute enough hearing to discern the difference in sound and also the exact location of each clicker. They may sound alike to you humans, but to a dog they are each like different musical notes! My wife and I intersperse clicks for four different dogs in quick succession and they know exactly who is clicking for what! The dogs are also not dimwits: They know which person is their owner, and they respond to that person;s clicks, not the stranger across the room. If you really believe it won't work in a class situation, you'd better contact some of the many clicker trainer who lead classes and tell them that!

Second misnomer. Cute poem, but Pavlov had nothing to do with clicker training. Pavlov used the concept of Conditioned Response. Clicker Training is based on B. F. Skinner's theories which are not the same. It is based on Positive Reinforcement and other more practical and realistic principles of behavior that have been used in psychology and education for decades. As a form of animal training, it began at SeaWorld and other aquatic parks to train large animals like dolphins and whales.

Judi W: Clickers work infinitely better than a leash and collar. In clicker training, (CT), you don't yank a dog around or limit its movements by putting pressure on one of its most vulnerable parts, its neck, and potentially choking it! In CT, the treaing can be completely off-leash and hands off. The dog does what IT feels like doing, and when that coincides with what you want it to do, you click and treat (C&T). Pretty soon you have a dog that is saying to itself, "Hey, I have control of this guy. I can make him reward me whenever I want." CT is by far the most humane and painless form of obedience training. It employs virtually no negative reinforcement or criticism.

Even the newest dog owner probably knows that it is absolutely useless to say "Bad Dog!" and shout at or hit a puppy that pees in the house. CT says it is absolutely useless (and unnecessarily cruel and destructive to obedience and your relationship with your dog in the long run) to punish, startle, or inflict any misery on a defenseless animal who is only doing what its genes tell it to do!

Storm wrote: "Really enjoy the guys trying to curb dog aggression via click, click."

Thanks for the complement. About a month ago I Clicker Trained our 80 lb. Rottweiler, who is very protective and does not usually react well to strange or new dogs, to accept a 6 week old puppy we had just gotten. First meeting: Old Cheyenne, the Rott, was barking and ready to bite the head of the pup. Within one week, we felt confident enough to leave both free in the house unsupervised. They were just playing out in the backyard this afternoon.

Your comment also shows a misunderstanding of how CT works. You train a behavior with the clicker. Then you attach a verbal cue: STAY or whatever. Then you do not use the clicker anymore for that behavior once it is learned. The clicker isn't a tranquilizing gun that you carry around and use in emergencies. An aggressive dog will attack another dog, and no click will stop it. (You, using conventional training and saying "AWAY" or "SIT" probably won't stop it either!) But that same aggressive dog, in a short period of time, can be clicked into behaving and not being so aggressive, so that the next time it meets its rival, it will have a good chance of walking by or responding to a simple call away.

Error Number 4: Snapping fingers, whistling, making duck calls, etc. can be used as a substitute for a clicker, but they do not work as well. One reason is that the duration of a click is so short. In the time you can say SIT, I can click about five times. (Maybe more if I practice.) Also, many trainers have found that some dogs do not like whistles because they are too loud and high pitched. To a dog, they sound about ten times louder than we hear them. The advantage of a clicker is its immediate, short duration signal.

For example, what is the point of the command Come? In conventional training, the dog executes a series of actions, over many seconds or even minutes, when you say COME. First it must get up if it is sitting. Then it must locate you. Then it must start walking--toward you--without stopping. Then it must get within a certain distance, stop, and face you and then stay there. Meanwhile, you probably have it on a lead and are pulling it toward you if it's not moving fast enough, while calling out encouraging or threatening words of motivation! Which of those 10 actions is Come?
What is the import point? The dog does not know.

But when I say Come, the second (split second) the dog arrives in front of me (which is the whole point of Come!) I click. When I tell it Sit, I click the second its butt hits the ground. Clicks can more precisely define and mark in time a short behavior or a particular step in a more complex behavior. They are also neutral and uniform in sound and volume. A click for a well-executed behavior cannot be harsh, critical, happy, disappointed, louder than normal, disgusted, or overly excited. Every click is a familiar, consistent sound that the animal gets used to. The voice is not as versitile, accurate, or uniform as a clicker.

TrishB: A finger snap is not as accurate, and I'd like to see how you would feel after you do a five or ten minute session a few times a day, day after day, once you have snapped your fingers three thousand times. About not having them handy: People who do serious clicker training purchase dozens and put them in their car, their jacket pocket, and in each room in the house. They cost about $2 a piece in small quantities, less in bulk. You can get five or six clicker for the cost of one good collar. But this still misses the point that I made in response to Storm's comments. Typically, a dog is taken aside in a quiet place and clicker trained for a short session a few times a day. Once the behavior is learned and done routinely, a verbal cue is substituted for the click, the rewards are given randomly and ultimately phased out, and the same old SIT command that you would use is used on the street or in real life to tell the dog to sit. You don't carry a clicker around all day and pull it out when it's time to sit!

I could repond to other statements and the hidden and incorrect assumptions behind them, but I will summarize by saying--and please do not be offended, I am not trying to be insulting, but just frank and informative--that the majority of the comments made against CT or about its limitations show an ignorance of how it is done, when and where it is and can be used, and what it is all about.

I am a high school English teacher and I like to tell the one about the kid who says, "I hate this book, it's boring." That's when I ask if the student read any of it. The answer, of course, is usually no.

I've trained and continue to train my four dogs with CT, and I am still amazed on a weekly basis at how fast certain behaviors are picked up, how long the memory for these behaviors is, and how much fun and enjoyment my dogs and I get out of every session. It is not like training, it is pure play!

I told someone else on another forum that I had clicker trained an 8-9 week old Rottie pup to Come, Sit, Sit Stay for as long as a minute, follow a target stick around the room with its nose, stop biting almost completely, and to look at me instantly every time I said its name. This all occurred in about one week. I was told that I was crazy and that the pup was just doing its thing and I was misinterpreting it. I was told that these behaviors would disappear as soon as the pup matured a bit and became more independent. I guess I should tell the pup since in the meanwhile it now is pretty good at UP (jump up on a bed or piece of furniture), and OFF (jump down or stop leaning on a person), and its Sit Stay has improved so that I can turn my back, walk away, and make all kinds of noise and the pup will still stay. I can also make it chase it's tale on command.

I'm not bragging here. I credit half of the amazing success to Clicker Training and the other half to a very smart pup. At this age, they absorb things like a sponge and exhibit new behaviors and skills daily! I won't take up anymore time telling about my other three dogs, or how I helped train my daughter's two, but again I think this strand began with a lot of misinformed opinions and statements. Try reading the book before you say its boring.

I'd be happy to instruct anyone on how to clicker train a particular behavior, or on the general principles behind it. Any questions are welcome, and I promise not to chastise you this time!

Barry