[RottsNScotts]

Originally Posted by BostonRott

To address additionally what Janet has talked about, when researching a breeding, one should look into what has been produced.

Originally Posted by BostonRott

So if a byb is breeding "for pets" and their dog/bitch has previously produced excellent pets for their friends and neighbors, that is okay?

Simply b/c a dog is not titled does not mean that it has not been tested, and this is where knowing the person doing the breeding comes in handy. Or better, having the working experience yourself and knowing how to properly evaluate the dogs being bred.

Again, how many times have we heard "well, my breeder has been breeding or "in" Rottweilers for 30 years"? Titling is the "proof" that the pair has been evaluated by an outside source in front of other people not connected with the breeding.

Ron has put SchH1 and BST titles on two previous dogs that he's owned. He's put BH/AD on other's dogs, and subsequently with these two. He knows temperament absolutely and would NOT be doing this breeding if he felt there were serious flaws.

It isn't about Ron. It is about either setting the standard of titling dogs before breeding or not.

How many who are so quick to judge have considered the idea that there may be club issues re: training time. What do you do when your helper comes down with a serious health issue? When there have been subsequent surgeries over the past 18+ mos of shoulder repairs, knee replacements, and more are needed?

Titling is NOT just Sch although it certainly is MY passion! But when you do not have access to it any more, you test/title in other venues.

But last time I checked, it ain't the titles that pass on, it's the genes. If the talent is there, it will pass.....pure and simple.

Again, many byb's say the same thing. But how long of that will finally dilute and wash away those working genes if each successive generation is not tested and those tests proved by titling? If the standard is not that EVERY dog bred is titled, then it is no standard at all.

Those of us that are experienced and do the research are aware of who is who. The new people that come on this list are going by what is put down in the post and they see an announcement that has little more than their understanding of their own breeding that is condemned so roundly.

Junky's puppies are collectively out working on CDX legs, Open agility legs, Open Preferred agility legs, SAR work, Rally titles, have earned RN's, CD, BH's, AD and will soon be entering for BSTs.

If anyone would like to candidly discuss either dog in this breeding, feel free to contact me. I've known them both since they got off their respective air planes.

It isn't about this breeding! It is about either setting a standard or not.

As to CH's, I quite frankly find little value. And, no offense to Ann, the Canadian CH doesn't hold a drop of water *with me* as no majors are required. The phrase "shoot up to Canada and grab a CH" is not a very complimentary one to the CKC.

As I said, it doesn't have to be Ch's, AKC or CKC, if that is not what one's preference is. It can be BST's, Ztp's, whatever but a demonstration that one has conformed to the standard.

I understand Janet's point fully, however, as Patti suggests, it would have been nicer to start a new thread, rather than putting a negative slant on a breeding.

Seems to me I took far less heat than this when I bred to Junky, and at the time, he was <gasp> 'untitled!'

It was specifically this post that did not meet the standards that are proclaimed on this list nor has it been the only one. It just came at a time when I had the time to point out the problem (and stick with it for all the replies).