[UnclLou]

lblax wrote: let no one fool you you absolutly can not teach with an ecollar

LC: I know this is an old thread, but I just bumped into it. I use the Ecollar to teach new behaviors and find it's faster and easier on the dog and handler than any other tool. You can also use it to proof behaviors and to refine them, as you say.

Lblax wrote: and any dog that cries out simply is not a mamma's boy the e collar was simply set to high. you only want the dog to notice the stimulas the reaction looked for may be the dog looking or coming to its owner or a slight head shake but never a yelp

LC: There are a couple of reasons that dogs yelp. The obvious one is the sudden onset of pain. But a dog may also yelp because he's surprised. I've also had dog in my seminars that had prior high level use, such as at snakeproofing clinics, that yelped when they felt the stim at the level where they FIRST feel it. They made an association between the stim at the snakeproofing clinic and what they were feeling at this time. Some dogs also vocalize because they're learned that it gets them something they want, usually stopping the owner from doing something that the dog doesn't want to do.

Lblax wrote: and every dog requires a differant setting

LC: Actually most dogs, and most humans for that matter respond at about the same settings. There are some higher and some lower but most respond at about the same level.

spoteet wrote: The only part of her theory that I did not agree with was she also uses the collar to teach a cammand.

LC: Take a look at my website to see how I do this.

Mick Trainer wrote: "Not big on Theory". RRREEAAAAALLLYYY.

LC: Hi Mick, how are things. When I first met Fred (spent three full days with him in Las Vegas watching him train his own dogs, those of his clients and those dogs being trained by his employees) I realized that he knew nothing about dogs, how they thought, or their drives. I offered to teach him as I thought that it would make his training better. His response was classic. "I only need to know about one drive, the 'do it when I say do it drive.' "

Vicki wrote: promises training in five minutes and apparently the owners seem to view their dog utterly shutting down as they fall into a state of learned helplessness as a good thing.

LC: I think that many of his clients are fed up with their dogs. For years they've not been able to get control of them, out of ignorance or laziness and now, in five minutes, they see their dog behaving. They don't know enough to know that their dog has had all of his behaviors suppressed, they only know that now he's not dragging them down the street and is doing what they want to do. To them, it's a miracle!

Vicki wrote: I certainly had my view changed on several trainers I'd thought I admired once I saw their views on No Limitations and how wonderful it was as "training".

LC: As unpleasant as it was I think it's good that you went to the seminar. Now you can speak first-hand about what you saw instead of relying on what someone else says.

Storm wrote: That's why I can never understand how people put their dogs on a seminar without knowing who or what it is about

LC: I always recommend that people go see as many trainers as they can. You can always learn something even if it's what NOT to do. When NL seminars come up I recommend that people go, but leave their dogs at home.