[Vicki]

Mick, I agree with you, this is only about No Limitations, not an indictment of ecollars. This horrid guy is big here in the States, promises training in five minutes and apparently the owners seem to view their dog utterly shutting down as they fall into a state of learned helplessness as a good thing.

I made sure to post it here as there were two Rottweilers there. One allegedly ecollar literate dog got a good, long "correction", I mean long, the dog was just screaming and submissively whining, we got up, packed up our chairs and left the seminar, and WE COULD HEAR THE DOG ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE PARKING LOT. Made me sick and sad. Worse, a supposed Rottweiler expert is posting in support of the owner and "trainer". I believe I can tell you everything you need to know about them in one sentence. According to them, and this is a direct quote, I am NOT making this up, the Rottweiler is a "high drive, hard, strong willed, dominant dog" and at the same time, the Rottweiler is a "soft dog who is a 'momma's boy'".

The other Rottweiler was there with a couple who had a baby, sweet dog with not much training, but well behaved, boy do I worry about them, even posted on the No Limitations list to warn them about redirected aggression. Before we left the dog, who had been alert and happy prior to the seminar, quietly sitting by the owners feet, ended up pulling the leash out of their hands and trying to hide under their chairs, poor little thing was so scared, just trembling and trying to disappear into the ground.

It is my own fault I went to that seminar, well to part of it, two fun filled hours left in the day when I couldn't stand it anymore; I should have checked it out more carefully. I was reminded how careful we trainers have to be about "knowing" someone via the Internet; I certainly had my view changed on several trainers I'd thought I admired once I saw their views on No Limitations and how wonderful it was as "training".

I'd dismissed what I saw as "purely positive" people talking about the abuse that got passed off as training in some ecollar seminars; I was dead wrong and am sorry for my error. This is indeed the kind of thing that will get ecollars banned; can you imagine PETA or some other AR nuts getting video with the audience laughing about the dog getting shocked in the crate, not to mention any video of the dogs. I was ready to work for the ban myself, till I calmed down some.

I have had some other ecollar trainers reach out to me and talk about how to actually train with an ecollar; I'll be visiting as many of them as I can.