[Vicki]

I attended a No Limitations ecollar seminar last Saturday, [May 8th]. and
wanted to share my observations, hopefully try to share them without
editorial comment so that people can draw their own conclusions. I
have tried to note where my expectations for the seminar and the
actual seminar diverged; I have also tried to describe my
observations of the dogs without emotion. To that end I decided to
call what happens when the human hits the remote "button", as this
is the word Fred used in calling to out owners: "button, button,
button". "Button" is what happens when one pushes the button on the
remote and sends power to the unit on the dog's neck.

Expectation Number One: This would be a dog training seminar.
Actual Seminar: Unadulterated conditioning, (classical and operant)

To avoid confusion here are definitions:

Dog training:
1) Teach the dog what it is you want
2) Give "it" (your expectation) a cue
3) Reward the dog when he is right
4) AFTER the dog has demonstrated he fully understands the
expectation and the cue, correct the dog when he is wrong

Conditioning:
Stimulus – Response (Stimulus A produces Response B)

Fred was clear on this, to quote: "the button means come, go, stay,
sit, down, jump, off, up; the button means everything". How the
dog is to differentiate which command the button is calling for was
not discussed. Fred stated "he isn't into theory, the collar works
because it works".

Expectation Number Two: Finding the collars "working level" would
involve carefully studying the dog's body language, looking for
an "ear flick" or other subtle sign the dog was aware of the button.
Actual Seminar: No subtlety needed, the button intensity is such
that the dogs have varying reactions, but only of degree not of
kind, the reaction is highly visible and usually vocal as described
below.

Expectation Number Three: I had read, and heard, the dogs "didn't
mind" the button and quickly adjusted to the "stim".
Actual Seminar: The dogs ALL, every one, exhibited behaviors such
as the following:

1) Trying to run, especially trying to run to their owners,
hitting the end of the leash and struggling to keep going,
accompanied with yelping and other "vocalizations"
2) Jumping up on the person with the remote, ("button, button,
button" got the dog down), more yelping and hitting the end of the
leash
3) Laying down, belly on the ground ("button, button, button
got them on their feet), more yelping
4) Sitting and offering a paw
5) Crying. Fred did have a suggestion to deal with the
continuous "vocalization", he suggested to the owners that they
place the contact point directly under the dogs throat as this
would "help" with the "vocalization problem"
6) Jumping away from the "stim"
7) In one case I can not think of a single word to describe the
sound a Rottweiler made except to call it a scream (I left early as
I couldn't listen to this anymore)
8) Panting and drooling, (it was a very cool day)
9) Making themselves small, low body posture, head low, ears
and tail low
10) Exaggeratedly slow movements
11) The dogs stood, just dead still, staring at the person with
the remote without blinking. This outcome was held out as
desirable: "look how good the dog is now".

A few more observations: How the trainers spoke about dogs to the
owners surprised me, "don't let the dog argue with you", "don't let
the dog win", dogs were called "stupid", "retarded", "knucklehead",
the Rottweiler who screamed was called a "momma's boy". These type
of remarks were the only explanation for the any of the above dog
behavior.

Owners were told to put the dogs over a jump, no questions about
the dogs previous training or conditioning, just send him over again
and again, "till he clears it nicely". It was a fixed jump, the
kind you slide boards into, several of the dogs tried to climb it or
just stopped at the boards and turned to look at the person with the
remote, "button, button, button" until they went over and the button
was to be used again while the dog was in the middle of jumping.
The point of this was not discussed.

To sum up the seminar in one paragraph, Fred told the following
story; (I assume he found it illustrative of No Limitations
training, certainly I found it gave me insight into the No
Limitations ecollar trainers and their ecollar training method).
Fred was telling about a seminar where he was using a unit that has
one remote for two collars. He took one of the dogs out to "train"
and was getting no response, so he turned the collar up higher and
higher, keeping his finger on the button, and after this had gone on
for some time finally a participant at the seminar told him his dog
in the crate was going crazy. Seems he had forgotten to switch the
remote, and the dog in the crate was getting "fried". With the
exception of my husband and myself; THE PEOPLE THERE LAUGHED AT THIS
STORY. Fred went on to share his thought it was "no big deal", he
stated that when he came over and released the dog who had been
getting "fried" in the crate, " the dog just hopped right to it,
worked like a dream".

Vicki Magnus
P.O. Box 2155
Waldorf, Maryland 20604